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progrules 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 14 2007
Location: Netherlands
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 Topic: Can albums be too long ??
Posted: July 23 2009 at 13:48 |
I have read this so many times last few months and I can hardly believe it when I see it in reviews. Many reviewers claim that over 70 minute albums (or doublers) are way too long and it annoys them  .
An often mentioned argument is that in the seventies there were just vinyls and they had the perfect length (40 minutes).
Personally I don't get this criticism. To me an album can't be long enough, especially if all the music is worthwhile (which is for instance the case with Martigan's Vision lasting 79 terrific minutes). And also simple maths speak in the advantage of long albums. I rather pay $ 20 for 80 minutes than for 40 minutes of music. So that's why I don't understand the criticism. Do you ? Please give sensible arguments.
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Epignosis
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 13:57 |
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Yes, an album can too long, just the same as a novel can be too long. I say trim the fat of both.
The Flower Kings are notorious for this (to me- others will disagree, and that's fine of course). Albums with more than an hour's worth of music ask a lot of a listener (who listens to albums, not songs). Paradox Hotel kills me. I absolutely love about five or seven tracks on that album, but it's a double disc loaded with stuff that really should've hit the cutting room floor ("Bavarian Skies?" Really?).
Part of being an artist I think comes from know what to cut. For my album, I must have written over two hours worth of stuff over the course of years. Had I thrown all of that onto one album, it would've been a mess. Instead, I carefully considered what belonged and what didn't. That doesn't mean I can't save some of this music for another release (indeed I aim to), but cramming everything you did onto one disc just because you can usually leads to a crappy result.
Not in every case though...my favorite album is Tales from Topographic Oceans.
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lazland
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Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:03 |
I can see where Robert is coming from, but, to my mind, it's not really a question of whether it is too long, just whether it is good. TFTO is not too long, but I don't rate sides two & three, so would have preferred a single album with Revealing & Ritual. I am really enjoying the Flower Kings at the moment, so I don't really consider the length. 
Edited by lazland - July 23 2009 at 14:13
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CPicard
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:06 |
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I think that the genre can play a little part: the history of punk and hardcore are full of great LPs, but a lot of people prefer to stick to the singles. Some bands can turn really annoying from a certain length (I never could stand the Ramones' albums!)
Now, to answer to the topic, are 70 minutes too long? It can be and it depends of various things: your tastes (of course), how you feel today, etc. For me, some 40 minutes long album can be really too long to listen to!
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Moogtron III
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:10 |
I remember Genesis got some critique (this time I mean outside PA) for Calling All Stations, that there were some fillers on it. Phil Collins defended the album by saying that these days there's more music on a cd than on an album in the early days.So I think Epignosis has a point.
But there are two sides to it. You can use the skip button, of course. Choose what you like from the abundance of songs on an album. But let at least 45 minutes of your album be quite good. Does this sound satisfying? Not completely to me. So I think in the end I agree with Epignosis. Artists, learn to edit, and bring quality instead of quantity. If you have 45 minutes of brilliant material, leave it with that. If you have 80 minutes of material, so much the better.
I'm still surprised that quite some of my favourite Italian albums are only around 30 minutes. They don't sound like they do!
Funny, I remember someone from Yes (Jon Anderson) say that Tales would have been better made if cd was the standard in those days: the album could have been like 50 or 60 minutes. And then people wouldn't complain about the album being to stretched out. (To be honest: I like Tales as it is). So in that case the cd would have been ideal.
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The Sleepwalker
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Joined: February 03 2009
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:13 |
In most cases, I don't mind it if an album is lengthy, a good example of this are Tool's albums. Their albums got as many minutes of music on them as the disc can hold (somewhere between 70 and 80). Also, on some fantastic albums, like Porcupine Tree's FOABP (that lasts only 50 minutes) I wish there was more music on the album. For songs comparable to the songs on FOABP I now have to buy the Nil recurring EP, that contains only 30 minutes of music and costs only €3 less than FOABP (FOABP €19.99 and Nil Recurring €16.99)... I guess that's marketing... However, in some cases an album is good enough being not too long. For example Pink Floyd's WYWH, I don't think an extra song would do the album much good, as it is perfect as it now is. The same thing is with other albums, Foxtrot, DSOTM, Pawn Hearts, etc. Also, I think it's pretty annoying if an album is too long and that's affecting you listening the album. the Lamb, for example, contains lots of songs meant to tell the story if the album, but are musically very weak. This way I have to skip through the story of the album, making the emotion of the album fade away a bit. Same thing with The Wall.
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Blacksword
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:17 |
 progrules wrote:
I have read this so many times last few months and I can hardly believe it when I see it in reviews. Many reviewers claim that over 70 minute albums (or doublers) are way too long and it annoys them .
An often mentioned argument is that in the seventies there were just vinyls and they had the perfect length (40 minutes).
Personally I don't get this criticism. To me an album can't be long enough, especially if all the music is worthwhile (which is for instance the case with Martigan's Vision lasting 79 terrific minutes). And also simple maths speak in the advantage of long albums. I rather pay $ 20 for 80 minutes than for 40 minutes of music. So that's why I don't understand the criticism. Do you ? Please give sensible arguments. |
Yes, an album can be too long if the music isn't all worthwhile, but I guess it's subjective whether the music is worthwhile. As an example I think Frances the Mute by TMV could be shorter, and have less 'filler' in the form of noise, but that's just my opinion..
I'd rather an album clock in around 40 - 45mins, and be comprised of all memorable music. Thankfully most CD's I buy or albums I download are all pretty cheap anyway, so I rarely feel short changed.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:28 |
Definitely. Check the Mars Volta albums no.3 and 4 to see why. 
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Vompatti
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 14:29 |
Long albums, even the ones with practically no weak songs on them, are
often either repetitive or incoherent. (Most Tori Amos albums seem to be both.  ) I'd rather buy a 30-minute album than an 80-minute album I will never listen to.
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Luca Pacchiarini
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 16:43 |
progrules wrote:
Can albums be too long? |
Of course, every Dream Theater album which is longer than 3 seconds bores me to death 
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topofsm
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 16:52 |
I'd say that in the times we live in today there really isn't such thing as too long of an album. The majority of people today listen to select SONGS, not albums today, so the more music you pack on to a CD the better. Even if most of the tracks suck as long as you release one good hit song then the other 75 minutes of an album is worth releasing, since fans will ultimately get the album and the whole thing will be released on iTunes.
As for us prog community who generally listens to the whole thing from beginning to end, of course there is such thing as too long of an album. I haven't listened to all of Unfold the Future in one sitting yet because it's so long. Tales From Topographic Oceans has tons of padding. Paradise Lost by Symphony X is the same song over and over again. These are my two cents.
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Any Colour You Like
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 17:21 |
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Long albums for the sake of long albums bore me. What can be succinctly crafted in 45 minutes of music does not need to take 30 more minutes, especially if that music becomes repetetive or dull.
That being said, if DSOTM had been 20 minutes longer, I probably would still enjoy it.
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Chris S
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 18:02 |
It's a great question and depends on the quality of the album
Some great ones spring to mind:
Roger Waters - Amused To Death
The Cure - Kiss me, Kiss me , Kiss me
Shakti with John McClaughlin
Then again the remasters with 5 x versions's of Camel's Lady Fantasy or Caravan's For Richard is overkill IMO. Yes we can all skip songs but that is not the point. In terms of pure studio albums and even the odd live ones it all depends on quality otherwise you can lose interest.
Klaus Schulze's Moondawn another good long album  |
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Soul Dreamer
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 19:14 |
The answer to the question is Yes, an album can be too long, especially when while playing it you get the feeling that it's getting boring, while you like the music generally...TFK is notorious for this (for me). The other way around happens more often, though...an album which is too short, and could use another track. An example of this is Deep Purple's Machine Head. Great album, but only 37 minutes...and then you learn (later) that they had the killer track "When a Blind Man Cries" but didn't put it on the album... 
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zappaholic
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 19:19 |
If a band can keep up the momentum and the musical quality and hold a listener's interest for 70+ minutes, then more power to 'em.
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SergiUriah
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 19:58 |
I think usually an extense lenght (65-74 mins) can show some low moments in the music.
I preffer not very long albums (´til 55-65 mins max.) but if any band can do a big and very long album, it´ll be welcome.
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Luca Pacchiarini
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 20:14 |
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35-45 minutes are generally enough for me
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The Quiet One
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Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 20:15 |
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I think that when in a review someone states that the album is too long, it means it has filler, that less minutes could do without. I don't think it's length per se.
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mr.cub
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Joined: March 06 2009
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 20:42 |
Soul Dreamer wrote:
The answer to the question is Yes, an album can be too long, especially when while playing it you get the feeling that it's getting boring, while you like the music generally...TFK is notorious for this (for me). The other way around happens more often, though...an album which is too short, and could use another track. An example of this is Deep Purple's Machine Head. Great album, but only 37 minutes...and then you learn (later) that they had the killer track "When a Blind Man Cries" but didn't put it on the album... |
In this day and age one has the ability to create their own playlists and be as selective as possible. So as a listener, you are more in control of what you are listening to than ever before. As for the length of an album, I would have to agree with previous posts in that the length of an album is in direct relation to the material on the album; however, one person may find TfTO too long while another person find it just right. So yes an album can be too long if it fails to engage the listener throughout
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Tsevir Leirbag
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 20:45 |
If the album's good, there's no such problem as "too long album", I think
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Can albums be too long ??
