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dude 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1338
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 Posted: March 14 2004 at 06:45 |
WHAT!!! NOT FUNNY ENOUGH!!! i thought it was a brilliant and witty retort,worthy of OSCAR WILDE......Okay,Mabye not,But i try ...LORD KNOWS I TRY ...BOO HOO HOO YOU HAVE HURT MY FEELINGS i am going to cry now....WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA...PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER MAN(SLAP, SLAP)......okay i am all better now!!! 
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Ulf Uggason
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 09 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: March 14 2004 at 10:07 |
Fashion. Does anybody find it amusing/disgusting that punk is considered mainstream now, almost 30 years after it appeared? How many covers of Rolling Stone have been devoted to bands like Blink 182? Then you have the new garage rocking bands like The Strokes, Vines, etc. All of this has been done a billion times before, and many times better by the old bands. Mick Jagger is looking at his own grandchildren in these Vines like bands. Yet this stuff still gets slathered upon with great critical reviews by "in-the-know" music critics.  Two of my favorite types of music, Prog and Metal have never been critics choices. They're not "cool" enough.
Punk first appeared as a reaction to the excess of '70s rock. One was the excess of opulent rock star lifestyles and egos gone out of control (let's say Rod Stewart), and then musical excess (a lot of Prog). Both of these moved rock away from its birth place in the garage, and took it some place else.
Back in the day, it took me a while to get into punk, but I got there. I loved the big bands of the times, The Clash, Ramones, The Jam, etc. I love rock 'n' roll, and I love dirty rock 'n' roll. However, my fixation with punk didn't last that long. I moved on to the underground Metal scene of the '80s, where so much cool music was made. I still absolutely love The Clash. They appear to be the only punk band from that era that to survive as one of my all-time favorite bands.
What really amuses me today is that if punk partially evolved out of rebellion against music like Prog, then today Prog is the perfect rebellion against the boring, mainstream, water-downed punk that is considered cool today!
Peace,
Ulf
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: March 14 2004 at 11:27 |
 richardh wrote:
I'll go for 'Option B' - Creative Burnout
Prog rock came from the sixties and was a part of the natural evolution of rock music.The original bands (ELP,Yes,King Crimson etc) were talented enough to make there way without having to be tied to having radio airplay or clever marketing.They could 'do it' in the live arena.To some extent it just ran its course.Once the classic prog albums were 'in the can' there was nowhere left to go (apart from down). Most modern prog is really a tribute to the music that was made between 1969-1975.That was a special era in music history.
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 I'll drink to what richardh wrote. The few newer prog bands that I listen to these days have echoes of early 70's bands. For example, and perhaps the best example, is the (Fish) Marillion/early Genesis conection, Echolyn has been likened to Gentle Giant, and Anekdoten( one of my faves!) has King Crimson leanings. Also many artists formerly with these bands went on to produce some great solo material. Good examples are Peter Gabriel's worldbeat/rock fusions, McLaughlin's traditional eastern musical explorations with Shakti and Jan Akkerman has put out some great yet esoteric albums over the years.
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philippe
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Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
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Points: 3597
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Posted: March 15 2004 at 08:57 |
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journalists of popular music can't stop talking that the guitar overdubs and noise from the punk rock has killed the synth arrengements and epic harmonies from the prog rock...commercialy speaking it was true in those days...but which scene prevails now? All must be relative because things are cyclical.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: March 15 2004 at 09:02 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
No, prog didn't kill  prog -- Phil Collins did!
I watched him rip the still-beating, unshaven heart from Genesis!
Just kidding, Philbert, wherever you are. Balding men gotta eat too.... |
He must take responsibility for his actions - I say he can either eat OR breath - NOT both!
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Glass-Prison
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 453
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Posted: March 15 2004 at 19:17 |
Oddly enough, Phil Collins appeared on the Oscars last week.
Perhaps he is considered 'cool' by society. if so, why? because he sold out a talented prog rock giant to appease the unintelligent and tasteless masses? maybe he, too, 'jumped the shark' musically.
Anyway, I ought to do a rant on society, and it's destruction of talent in music... but it's late.
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Dan Bobrowski
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Joined: February 02 2004
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Points: 5243
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Posted: March 16 2004 at 11:00 |
Tauhd Zaïa wrote:
[
Surely Pete !!!
I have seen a jig of The Damned (and The Stranglers too) |
"Walkin' down the beaches, lookin' at the Peaches."
Great tune. I love the Stranglers. I had some of their stuff on cassette. I need to get their Greatest Hits.
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Tauhd Zaïa
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 340
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Posted: March 16 2004 at 11:05 |
And I ""WAS" the Queen of the Street (what a piece of meat )
Memory, all alone in the moonlight
I can smile at the old days
I was beautiful then
I remember a time I knew what happiness was
Let the memory live again
MIAOUUUUU ouinnnnnnnnnn
kleenex ?
Edited by Tauhd Zaïa
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The State Of Grace Is Achieved
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arqwave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2004
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 06 2004 at 02:15 |
PROG DIDN'T DIE, it just became the backyard of music, the seventies grew a bad seed called disco (i think punk is a response, not an illness), but the eighties where the most catastrophical decade of all time for arts in general: literature, architecture, theater, music, sculpture, photography and movies, i call it the pink age, only a few thing could be saved, but the wave of bad taste reached the early nighties, where bands like Dream Theater and Marillion were emerging like a phoenix out from their ashes, hahaha, but nevermind... the gurnge brought the prog back, with the strange structures of songs and higher topics... at least is better than pop!
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Stormcrow
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 05 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 400
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Posted: April 06 2004 at 07:08 |
Jim Garten wrote:
He must take responsibility for his actions - I say he can either eat OR breath - NOT both! |
SOO
SOO
SOODIO!
Woah, woah, OH!
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: May 07 2004 at 03:39 |
dude wrote:
I have always thought that "punk" was a REACTION to what young people at that time saw as "musical pretention"(eg prog, poseur bands like Led Zep etc and lets face it there is a certain pretention to prog that can help to define it although an argument could be made that complexity, is mistaken for pretention) hence a return to a basic more "raw" sound of "The Clash" "Sex Pistols" etc mind you i personally think that "pretentious" aspect returned somewhat when punk evolved into the new wave and "new romantic" sound of the early-mid 80,s "what goes around comes around"(something like the material shunning hippies of the 60,s becoming the business leaders of today.) what do you fellow proggers think? |
There was also a reaction against the fact that to see the (what were then considered as) dinosaur bands, you had to pay through the nose & go to huge arenas. Punk/Garage/New Wave bands were immediately available at small venues - this was not to say the musicianship in some of these bands was poor (although in some cases it was), just look at the songwriting of the Clash, Stranglers, U2, and the Banshees to name just four.
Things now seem to have come full circle, in a way - the larger bands now seem to be of a more poppy nature (as an example, Coldplay have released just 2 albums, but play 15/20,000 seat arenas) - at the same time, the newer surge of prog rock bands, and indeed some of the surviving 'old school' bands are relegated to playing much smaller venues, and are accessible, therefore to a much larger audience (if that's not an oxymoron).
I don't think prog killed prog, I think it just went underground for a while, biding its time - there will always be an audience for well crafted songs, played by good musicians, but sadly, never in the mainstream.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Alex
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 28 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 16
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Posted: May 07 2004 at 19:58 |
Progressive Rock shouldn't be mainstream in my opinion, it makes us better than the rest of "them". But it definately should get more exposure than it does...
The fact that most of the USA has no want for new music it won't become more mainstream here for a while. Its kind of sad really, that artists with half (or less!) the talent of most of the mainstream artists in the USA are totally unheard of here!
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-Alex
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Hibou
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 24 2004
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Points: 250
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Posted: May 07 2004 at 22:00 |
What an interesting thread this is! I particularly enjoyed reading Maani’s and Aztech’s analyses; yet I’d like to touch on one more aspect.
I often wondered if the popularity of prog in the 70’s wasn’t simply a fluke, albeit a very lucky one. What I mean is this: mainstream music, no matter from what era, is meant for the average listener who doesn’t particularly care for music. Prog, however (like jazz, blues and classical music), attracts real music lovers. How then can we explain that prog had such a huge following in the 70’s? Does it mean that the average Joe had suddenly become ‘enlightened’ musically speaking?
I think not.
The 70’s were a time when it was considered ‘cool’ to spit on the establishment. Protesting, using psychedelic drugs and basically doing anything counter-culture-wise were the thing to do. Buying prog albums was just another. Prog arrived at a time when it was ‘cool’ to say you loved Hendrix, even if you had to be stoned out of your mind to enjoy it.
If you read a bit about the history of prog, you’ll learn that a lot of DJ’s at the time couldn’t make heads or tails of what they were asked to play on the airwaves, but they did anyways. Because prog ‘sold’. It ‘sold’ because it was riding a revolutionary crest that supported its very nature: it broke the musical barriers that had so far limited rock music to 3 chords, binary beats and repetitive refrains. This fad benefited many artists who would otherwise never have had the opportunity nor the means to publish their music.
As fashions come and go, however, so did prog. And Paco’s saying that ‘critics played some role in prog’s decline’ rings true, considering that many of these critics had had to review a kind of music that was often beyond them. In fact, many must have let a sigh of relief in the 80's when they no longer had to deal with it.
We may never see the same world-wide infatuation for prog as we’ve seen in the early 70’s. But I'm sure it will never die, for the simple reason that there will always be passionate music lovers who take to it, no matter what the fads dictate. As Jim Garten put it so well, ‘there will always be an audience for well crafted songs, played by good musicians, but sadly, never in the mainstream’.
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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: May 07 2004 at 22:22 |
I don't know, maybe I live in other world, but in my country (Perú), prog' was never popular, I never heard a progressive song in a radio except Roundabout and after some years And then There Were Three (Which IMHO is not prog' and was the first Genesis release), we managed to get the LP's when one of us, our parents or friends went to USA or even Argentina (a big market for Prog') and that album was copied to at least 10 cassettes for all our friends (thanks God my parents travelled very often).
During the mid 70's I studied in a foreign school that encouraged students to read and listen more than simply mainstream, but only 2 or 3 guys of my promotion (146) listened prog', being myself the only 100% fanatic.
In the University (6,000 students) I found a very active but small prog' community of about 30 or 40 guys (only two girls), until 1980 when Frágil (national band) released their first album and Prog' became fashion for a short time.
I believe that the arrival of Internet has made prog' more popular than ever, people has discovered that there are more of us in the world, if you type Progressive Rock in Google or Yahoo you'll find hundreeds of pages.
And even better there are many new bands and young guys who listen good music. Today you can go to a Yes concert in Lima and find 15,000 souls really enjoying the show, and believe me 15,000 means a lot in a country where 90% of the people earns less than US$ 2,000,00 a year.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Hibou
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Joined: April 24 2004
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Points: 250
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Posted: May 08 2004 at 00:22 |
Hi Ivan: I'm sorry to hear there weren't many prog bands available to you at the time. All I can say is "Thank God for the Internet". And I'm glad to hear friends from Peru can now share their love of prog with us all .
Cheers
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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: May 08 2004 at 00:42 |
And I'm glad to hear friends from Peru can now share their love of prog with us all . |
Thanks Hibou, I'm also glad to be here where I can talk about the music I love and learn more about it.
Iván
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Peter
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Joined: January 31 2004
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Posted: May 08 2004 at 01:08 |
Cheers, Ivan & Hibou! Interesting conversation, & some good points.
 Hibou, I agree re the 70s being the glory days of prog popularity. The music itself, along with many of the instruments common to it, was being invented in those days, and evolving before our amazed young ears as a reflection of the times. That excitement can never be fully recaptured, in my opinion.
We can still enjoy fine new bands like IQ and Echolyn, but that's not the same as being in your teens or twenties in the 70s, and tearing the blue shrink-wrap off your brand-new copy of Wish You Were Here, (I even dreamt about the album just before its scheduled release -- in the dream Floyd had reinvented both the LP format, and music!) eager to discover how Floyd had finally followed up the mind-blowing Dark Side: "Wow cool jacket! Cool pics! A bizaare postcard!" 
Anyone else remember that particular experience, or a similar one with another of the classics of the early-to-mid 70s 
 Ah youth, where art thou flown? Waaaaah! 
Edited by Peter Rideout
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Alexander
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 237
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Posted: May 08 2004 at 02:20 |
[QUOTE]Did Prog Kill Prog?[?QUOTE]
Did Springing Die?
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On A Dilemmia Between What I Need & What I Just Want
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Hibou
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Joined: April 24 2004
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Points: 250
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Posted: May 08 2004 at 07:39 |
Lucky for you, Peter, dreaming of an upcoming Floyd album, wow!  It just shows where your head was at the time.
I myself once dreamt I was at a concert... a Rolling Stones concert . I remember hearing many tunes from their répertoire and although I don’t recall seeing Jagger swagger all over the stage, I vividly remember hearing every one of Keith Richards’ mean riffs and enjoying it thoroughly. It wasn’t a really prog but since you can’t ‘will’ your dreams, I considered myself lucky just to have seen an entire concert for free.
For sure, discovering new bands, even exciting neo-prog bands, isn’t the same when you’re 30 + but I'll take IQ, Echolyn or Arena any time. I also miss the art work on those 12" x 12" lp’s, especially the ones that opened up - Yes albums, the Floyd (those green pyramids on the poster inside), Led Zep’s "Houses of the Holy", Anthony Phillips "Wise After the Event" to name but a few - awsome ! I wonder if anyone has ever bought albums from totally unknown bands, just to hear what was inside...
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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!
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Glass-Prison
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 453
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Posted: May 08 2004 at 08:44 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
"Wow cool jacket! Cool pics! A bizaare postcard!"
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Hey! I found one of those postcards inside an old vinyl I picked up at an antique store. I wondered what it was doing there!
Unfortunately, I am too young to remember the 'good old days', but all I, a mere youth without the wisdom of years, can say is that there were some good tunes back then...
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Did Prog Kill Prog?
