About "The Ancient: Giants Under the Sun" lyrics

BaldJean wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: BaldJean wrote: fuxi wrote: BaldJean wrote: while our religion is open to both genders men have to undergo a certain surgical correction to join, and so far no man we met was willing to go for that. If men can only join after a "a certain surgical correction", it's hard to maintain that your religion is really "open to both genders"! well. that''s a kind of "Catch 22" about it . you have to be really dedicated to join. rest assured, it is not easy for women to join either; there is a certain initiation rite you have to go through. and no, it is not becoming bald . nevertheless, our little religious community consists of 16 women at the moment. just the right size for our purpose. I'd rather not tell what that initiation rite is in public, but if you are very curious you can ask me in private Not to be rude, but that seems rather cult-like. IMO, any religion that has something to fear being disclosed is questionable. And elitist? Shouldn't a religion be something for all to easily join?  it is not fear which makes me refrain from telling about the initiation rite in public, it is decency

BaldJean wrote: fuxi wrote: BaldJean wrote: while our religion is open to both genders men have to undergo a certain surgical correction to join, and so far no man we met was willing to go for that. If men can only join after a "a certain surgical correction", it's hard to maintain that your religion is really "open to both genders"! well. that''s a kind of "Catch 22" about it . you have to be really dedicated to join. rest assured, it is not easy for women to join either; there is a certain initiation rite you have to go through. and no, it is not becoming bald . nevertheless, our little religious community consists of 16 women at the moment. just the right size for our purpose. I'd rather not tell what that initiation rite is in public, but if you are very curious you can ask me in private

BaldJean wrote: fuxi wrote: BaldJean wrote: there are certain similarities to a witches coven, yes, especially the adoration of Mother Nature Sounds as if J.A. would fit right in! Oh, I seem to remember from previous threads that you're not particularly fond of his voice. I've heard similar complaints from many women (and men). The peculiar nature of that voice has never bothered me, though. Moreover, I find it a great deal more enjoyable than Chris Squire's or Steve Howe's! I don't really complain about his voice; it is just that he is a one-trick pony only. I actually love his solo album "Olias of Sunhillow", where he puts his voice to an excellent use; but even there he remains a one-trick pony

I love a one-trick pony as long as the trick is amazing.

fuxi wrote: BaldJean wrote: there are certain similarities to a witches coven, yes, especially the adoration of Mother Nature Sounds as if J.A. would fit right in! Oh, I seem to remember from previous threads that you're not particularly fond of his voice. I've heard similar complaints from many women (and men). The peculiar nature of that voice has never bothered me, though. Moreover, I find it a great deal more enjoyable than Chris Squire's or Steve Howe's!

I don't really complain about his voice; it is just that he is a one-trick pony only. I actually love his solo album "Olias of Sunhillow", where he puts his voice to an excellent use; but even there he remains a one-trick pony

Snow Dog wrote: Sounds more like a witches coven.

there are certain similarities to a witches coven, yes, especially the adoration of Mother Nature

fuxi wrote: BaldJean wrote: while our religion is open to both genders men have to undergo a certain surgical correction to join, and so far no man we met was willing to go for that. If men can only join after a "a certain surgical correction", it's hard to maintain that your religion is really "open to both genders"!

well. that''s a kind of "Catch 22" about it . you have to be really dedicated to join.
rest assured, it is not easy for women to join either; there is a certain initiation rite you have to go through. and no, it is not becoming bald . nevertheless, our little religious community consists of 16 women at the moment. just the right size for our purpose.
I'd rather not tell what that initiation rite is in public, but if you are very curious you can ask me in private


Edited by BaldJean - July 10 2009 at 06:12

fuxi wrote: If anything, I'd call J.A. a polytheist, but I don't think he ever thought in such rigid terms. TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS certainly seems much taken with sun god imagery ("Nous sommes du soleil" and all that) but the sun might as well be a metaphor for "the Deity" if you prefer monotheism. And just who or what is that High Vibration Jon sings about in "Awaken"? Rather than tackling issues of monotheism or polytheism, I think Yes music reflects the typical "pick and mix" attitude of hippie religiosity. Album titles like KEYS TO ASCENSION and MAGNIFICATION (loosely borrowed from Christianity) say it all, really - or do they actually say anything? As Jon put it in another context: "We have walked the path of all the known religions". (Oh, have we now?)

as far as I know Jon Anderson has not been a member of the religion that Friede and I are High Priestesses of, though he certainly sounds like it. by that I mean that while our religion is open to both genders men have to undergo a certain surgical correction to join, and so far no man we met was willing to go for that. but Anderson's voice for sure sounds as if he is ready to join

I have gone through the threads regarding this song on other forums, and I have read some Alan Gullette's illuminating interpretation of the Tales here. However I still have questions about the lyrics of "The Ancient":

1. Why are the names of sun gods (or goddesses) of ancient civilizations (plus a few words that correspond to sun in other languages like gunes, sol, qurax etc.) mentioned?

2. What does worshipping the sun or associating a god with it to do with ancient civilizations being "as one with the knowledge" or "marching as one with the earth"?

3. What's the message of the song and what does it have to do with the sun gods?

4. Does anyone know of any interviews or articles where Jon (or any other Yes member) explains what the significance of the sun gods in this song is?

In fact, all of my questions could have been wrapped up in the form of this last question, as it encapsulates the essence of my questioning:

5. As a monotheist I feel a great urge to know if this song -which might as well be my favorite Yes song- is/contains some sort of a celebration of polytheism (or worshiping another god other than or along with God, which in this case is sun god?)

Looking forward to hearing your opinions/interpretations...

Thanks in advance for your replies.