Dream Theater cracks the Billboard top 10

hitting_singularity2 wrote: p0mt3 wrote: hitting_singularity2 wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Just to clarify; my 'omg!' response was mainly due to the fact that DT has never been that high in the charts; not because modern Prog Rock hasn't. To the people saying, "Wow, I guess Prog isn't as underground in the public as we thought!", I must ask . . . do you not realize that bands such as Tool,  Radiohead, The Mars Volta, etc. are very popular bands? Prog has been alive and well for many years, now.   well, for me it's that I don't like any of the three bands you listed very much, even though i try and appreciate all music.  I'm am excited that some energetic, fun prog is getting more popular.  Most of what 'prog' is popular right now comes from the alternative movement in the 90's which is probably the most boring musical movement IMHO   lol, DT hasn't been 'energetic' or 'fun' since the mid 90s, but okay. j/k Tool was never part of the Alt. movement, and neither was TMV. Radiohead, maybe, but Radiohead still has much more creativity present in their music then most other Alt. Rock bands could dream of. Makes me wonder if you have even really listened to these bands, or if you've only taken others' accounts as your own opinion. I'm not trying to be difficult or confrontational, but I'm just defending these bands' integrity. Hell, I hate a lot of TMV stuff, but I know they aren't ''Alternate''.   I was more talking about Radiohead and Tool there, not really TMV.  However, I will admit, I am significantly unexperienced in all of these bands catalogs.  But this is because what I have heard of them, I was significantly bored.  I will revisit them again soon though, be assured.  Out of the three, I have enjoyed some of Radiohead's stuff the most actually.  Coming from a background in DT and Rush, what would you suggest as an entry point to TMV?

When it comes to TMV, absolutely listen to "De-Loused in the Commatorium" , as it is the only true 'masterpirce' I think they have made.

When it comes to Tool, do not, I repeat, DO NOT listen to their "Opiate" EP or the "Undertow" album; you will be sorely disapointed. I would suggest with Tool to start with either "La te ra lus" or "10,000 Days", then AEnima next.

Glad you are liking Radiohead's stuff, even a little. i never used to care too much for them, but lately they gave grown on me quite a bit. Hopefully the same will be said about TMV and Tool in your case.

There is room enough for all, i think, and I certainly love DT for what they are, but I dunno . . . I just never felt the 'heart and soul' of their music after the first few records. That's just me, though.

Take care.

p0mt3 wrote: hitting_singularity2 wrote: p0mt3 wrote: hitting_singularity2 wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Just to clarify; my 'omg!' response was mainly due to the fact that DT has never been that high in the charts; not because modern Prog Rock hasn't. To the people saying, "Wow, I guess Prog isn't as underground in the public as we thought!", I must ask . . . do you not realize that bands such as Tool,  Radiohead, The Mars Volta, etc. are very popular bands? Prog has been alive and well for many years, now.   well, for me it's that I don't like any of the three bands you listed very much, even though i try and appreciate all music.  I'm am excited that some energetic, fun prog is getting more popular.  Most of what 'prog' is popular right now comes from the alternative movement in the 90's which is probably the most boring musical movement IMHO   lol, DT hasn't been 'energetic' or 'fun' since the mid 90s, but okay. j/k Tool was never part of the Alt. movement, and neither was TMV. Radiohead, maybe, but Radiohead still has much more creativity present in their music then most other Alt. Rock bands could dream of. Makes me wonder if you have even really listened to these bands, or if you've only taken others' accounts as your own opinion. I'm not trying to be difficult or confrontational, but I'm just defending these bands' integrity. Hell, I hate a lot of TMV stuff, but I know they aren't ''Alternate''.   I was more talking about Radiohead and Tool there, not really TMV.  However, I will admit, I am significantly unexperienced in all of these bands catalogs.  But this is because what I have heard of them, I was significantly bored.  I will revisit them again soon though, be assured.  Out of the three, I have enjoyed some of Radiohead's stuff the most actually.  Coming from a background in DT and Rush, what would you suggest as an entry point to TMV?  When it comes to TMV, absolutely listen to "De-Loused in the Commatorium" , as it is the only true 'masterpirce' I think they have made. When it comes to Tool, do not, I repeat, DO NOT listen to their "Opiate" EP or the "Undertow" album; you will be sorely disapointed. I would suggest with Tool to start with either "La te ra lus" or "10,000 Days", then AEnima next. Glad you are liking Radiohead's stuff, even a little. i never used to care too much for them, but lately they gave grown on me quite a bit. Hopefully the same will be said about TMV and Tool in your case. There is room enough for all, i think, and I certainly love DT for what they are, but I dunno . . . I just never felt the 'heart and soul' of their music after the first few records. That's just me, though. Take care.

Well, i don't mean to make his thread go astray, but I hate to say that this is hugely subjective. First off, how come DT hasn't been energetic and fun since the 90? Spare me the Rudess suck argument, they have been making more experiments, music wise, in their last years than ever before, specially from 98-2001 (LTE 1&2 + SFaM & SDoIT) and now. OK, Train of Thought, Octavarium and Systematic Chaos can't be called masterpieces, but people obviously jump into conclusions when talking about them. Just because they are not perfect it does not means they suck. Those 3 albums are, in quality, pretty similar to Genesis's A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering.

In the second place, Tool, in my honest, HONEST opinion, has never released any good albums and I really don't know how a grunge band with just some heavier riffs found it's way to being classified as heavy metal, but this is just me, my opinion. They are one of few bands that I really can't find an album or a song to like.

As for TMV,  it is true that their debut stands out as being their best or second best, maybe, but i don't really think they ever released a bad album. In fact the album that grabbed my attention, the one that made me want to know more about them was The Bedlam Goliath, which is a damn good album, but it looks like people around here can't handle when music becomes a bit more acid than they are used to. Didn't listened to their last one though.

In Radiohead's case, well, I don't know their 2 first albums but from OK Computer on they are a  pretty good band.


Edited by CCVP - July 04 2009 at 22:36

CCVP wrote: p0mt3 wrote: hitting_singularity2 wrote: p0mt3 wrote: hitting_singularity2 wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Just to clarify; my 'omg!' response was mainly due to the fact that DT has never been that high in the charts; not because modern Prog Rock hasn't. To the people saying, "Wow, I guess Prog isn't as underground in the public as we thought!", I must ask . . . do you not realize that bands such as Tool,  Radiohead, The Mars Volta, etc. are very popular bands? Prog has been alive and well for many years, now.   well, for me it's that I don't like any of the three bands you listed very much, even though i try and appreciate all music.  I'm am excited that some energetic, fun prog is getting more popular.  Most of what 'prog' is popular right now comes from the alternative movement in the 90's which is probably the most boring musical movement IMHO   lol, DT hasn't been 'energetic' or 'fun' since the mid 90s, but okay. j/k Tool was never part of the Alt. movement, and neither was TMV. Radiohead, maybe, but Radiohead still has much more creativity present in their music then most other Alt. Rock bands could dream of. Makes me wonder if you have even really listened to these bands, or if you've only taken others' accounts as your own opinion. I'm not trying to be difficult or confrontational, but I'm just defending these bands' integrity. Hell, I hate a lot of TMV stuff, but I know they aren't ''Alternate''.   I was more talking about Radiohead and Tool there, not really TMV.  However, I will admit, I am significantly unexperienced in all of these bands catalogs.  But this is because what I have heard of them, I was significantly bored.  I will revisit them again soon though, be assured.  Out of the three, I have enjoyed some of Radiohead's stuff the most actually.  Coming from a background in DT and Rush, what would you suggest as an entry point to TMV?  When it comes to TMV, absolutely listen to "De-Loused in the Commatorium" , as it is the only true 'masterpirce' I think they have made. When it comes to Tool, do not, I repeat, DO NOT listen to their "Opiate" EP or the "Undertow" album; you will be sorely disapointed. I would suggest with Tool to start with either "La te ra lus" or "10,000 Days", then AEnima next. Glad you are liking Radiohead's stuff, even a little. i never used to care too much for them, but lately they gave grown on me quite a bit. Hopefully the same will be said about TMV and Tool in your case. There is room enough for all, i think, and I certainly love DT for what they are, but I dunno . . . I just never felt the 'heart and soul' of their music after the first few records. That's just me, though. Take care. Well, i don't mean to make his thread go astray, but I hate to say that this is hugely subjective. First off, how come DT hasn't been energetic and fun since the 90? Spare me the Rudess suck argument, they have been making more experiments, music wise, in their last years than ever before, specially from 98-2001 (LTE 1&2 + SFaM & SDoIT) and now. OK, Train of Thought, Octavarium and Systematic Chaos can't be called masterpieces, but people obviously jump into conclusions when talking about them. Just because they are not perfect it does not means they suck. Those 3 albums are, in quality, pretty similar to Genesis's A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering. In the second place, Tool, in my honest, HONEST opinion, has never released any good albums and I really don't know how a grunge band with just some heavier riffs found it's way to being classified as heavy metal, but this is just me, my opinion. They are one of few bands that I really can't find an album or a song to like. As for TMV,  it is true that their debut stands out as being their best or second best, maybe, but i don't really think they ever released a bad album. In fact the album that grabbed my attention, the one that made me want to know more about them was The Bedlam Goliath, which is a damn good album, but it looks like people around here can't handle when music becomes a bit more acid than they are used to. Didn't listened to their last one though. In Radiohead's case, well, I don't know their 2 first albums but from OK Computer on they are a  pretty good band.

Okay, here we go . . .

I'm pretty sure my comment on DT was accompanied by a "" and a "j/k". This means: "I'm just joking". We have nothing more to discuss on that point.

Right, now that we have that out of the way, three points about Tool:

Firstly: Tool has never considered themselves "Metal". That was a tag the ignorant press of the time stuck on, and people to this day still hold to that as what they really are.

Secondly: Tool isn't a 'grunge' band, either. For you to even make this claim shows me that you haven't truly given them a good listen. Their debut EP and first LP are pretty much crap in my view, as my reviews state. However, after those entries, they blossomed greatly. From the AEnima record onward, they have grown by leaps and bounds in instrumentation, songwriting and technicality. If you honestly can't hear this, then like I say, you havwn't truly listened.

Third: Tool is a band that must grow on you. I went from absolutely hating them to adoring them over a period of about five years. They are not a band you can simply hear a song or two by (or even an entire album) one time and go away with a true grasp on the complete experience behind their music. They are not an immediate favorite, and believe me, I understand where you are coming from in not understanding why they are so popular, but believe me, much is to be appreciated in there if you give it the chance.

And finally, I don't care what anybody says about TMV, I will NEVER consider TBiG a listenable album.



Alrighty, back on point, now . . . .

I still haven't heard the new album, but so far the reviews I've read have been pretty mixed, which is good. At least it isn;t all godlike praises or unrelentable curses. I can take these varied reviews much more seriousely.

Probably been touched upon before, but if one were to compare BCaSL to any orevious DT album, which does it closest resemble?

I finally bought the album yesterday.  I listened to the first 5 tracks as soon as i got home.  It was enjoyable but I fell asleep for 1 1/2 tracks so I dont really remember much besides the first three tracks.  I am looking forward to the last track however, i have heard some people think its some of the best work they have done.  Also looking forward to the covers, I didn't know they did Lark's until i bought it

CCVP wrote:   Concerning DT, I don't think BC&SL resemble any other album, but frankly, which DT album ever does, except Systematic Chaos? I think one of their biggest qualities is that every album is different. The only resemblance I can think of is that Wither resemble a part of Ministry of Lost Souls and that's it.

CCVP wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: CCVP wrote:   Concerning DT, I don't think BC&SL resemble any other album, but frankly, which DT album ever does, except Systematic Chaos? I think one of their biggest qualities is that every album is different. The only resemblance I can think of is that Wither resemble a part of Ministry of Lost Souls and that's it. Did I just read that? BC&SL doesn't resemble another DT album? OK, maybe not collectively, but each song sounds like one, or parts of one, from a previous album. DT has become the most uncreative band in ProgRock. To reiterate, for a set of musicians of their caliber, it is a slap in the face to Prog fans. They are the perpetual regurgitators of self and influence.  OK,  to make such a comment you OBVIOUSLY don't listen to prog rock, so WTF are you doing here????

KingCrimson250 wrote: I think it's interesting how DT can crack the Billboard top 10 but not the PA Top 100 of '09.

Edited by SergiUriah - July 06 2009 at 20:13

angelmk wrote: this is something  . DT reached 6 ,  Prog is taking over the charts .. strange .. The Mars Volta 12 .. even stranger .. maybe better times for Prog are coming .. or not ;  i doubt the ones which bought these albums,or at least the majority of them   know that these groups actualy play Prog ..

does it really matter if they know that the music has a certain label?

The important thing is that they will be more receptive to music with similar progressive elements.

I just can't wait until some post rock gets popular

KingCrimson250 wrote: SergiUriah wrote: KingCrimson250 wrote: I think it's interesting how DT can crack the Billboard top 10 but not the PA Top 100 of '09.   DT are now a metal band, not prog really, I think. Sure if they make more albums as I&W or AWAKE, they would be more appreciated in the forum and their position in charts and Tops would go down...and down.   You're right... Out of curiosity I went through the different lists: The last Dream Theater album to make the top 100 list for its respective year was 6DOIT. I knew not everyone liked ToT or 8va but I figured those would at least make the tail end of the list, so I was a little surprised. EDIT: Even if you filter it to just prog metal, anything after 6DOIT doesn't chart. Interesting.

King By-Tor wrote: The problem right now is that they're trying to be too prog and too dark at the same time, it's coming off as very bland, because who ISNT doing that right now?