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Topic ClosedDid Michael Jackson influence prog?

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RaphaelT View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 08:35

Just because Michael Jackson sold mass of records does not mean he should influence every style of music that there is. Well, it depends on what you understand under the term 'music', if it is considered as music to which you can dance then, yes, Jackson influenced the whole music. Apart from that, culture is not ruled by the force of gravity of great masses.

And Micky, you are right that music is made for enjoyment and not dissecting who influenced whom and who is secondary. I can apply this statement to prog. Who cares whether IQ are copies of Genesis or RPWL emulate Pink Floyd style. I just have another couple of songs in style I enjoy.
yet you still have time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 08:51
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

While Frank Zappa did have his band play Billie Jean on stage, I wouldn't go as far as saying it influenced him.
 
OTOH, I would say that Michael Jackson had a profound influence on comedy.
 
Prog metal band Lemur Voice did Beat it (genuine cover) on one of their albums. I couldn't believe it but it's true. Other than that, no role for MJ in our business I feel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 12:04
No word from OP.  I no longer care.  Unsubscribing, good bye.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 14:48
Was Michael Jackson's music all that influential anyway?  To me it sounds very much of its time - in the way that most pop music is.  I notice that a lot of modern dancers grab their crotches - so I suppose he had an impact there.  He used to say 'Ow' a lot - perhaps in conjunction with a crotch grab.  Sure he was a great pop star, but as far as I can see he stands at the opposite end of musical scale to prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 14:48
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

There are a lot of positive remarks on this thread I agree with.  For one, yes, I think respect is due.  His life became a circus, and he had enough fame and money to become as eccentric as he wanted.  He also got eaten up by the hype machine - not that he resisted it.  His solo music and with his brothers was sometimes quite sophisticated - Quincy Jones provided excellent production, and a friend of mine who plays bass said that ABC was one of the most difficult songs he'd ever learned (and this is from a guy who transcribed Telemann onto the electric bass).  No, he wasn't Prog of course, nor did he have a direct influence on it, but a good number of our bands on this site have dipped into the waters of Pop, so something may have come through.  Since Prog was more mainstream in the 70s than it is now, it did have a wide influence.  I can't point out any specifics, but influences don't always come directly.  I don't have any of his albums, and probably never will, not my style.  I do think the guy has had an influence on music in general over the past 30 years - with his immense popularity, how could it not?
 
I think Magna Carta should get some of its artists together and do a tribute album.  Or maybe Jon Anderson - his voice is in the same register (can't dance worth beans, though).  Wink
 
Yo, anyone, did Jamerson play bass on I Want You Back and ABC?  That would account for the level of difficulty.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 15:18
Hi,
 
I can easily tell you that Michael Jackson was aware of what we call progressive music, and thing ... and I know that he had listened to Space Pirate Radio many times ... and even had commented on it.
 
To my ear, the mixes of music he went on to make in the 80's that really made him big, is to me a sign of a man who had heard other things and had developed a really good ear for music and became a lot less afraid to mix it up ... which was one of the big things in a lot of music in those days ... than most of his peers and counterparts and specially Motown ... who is one of the worst labels when it comes to variation and different types of music ... but then, Barry made the label for himself, not others! We never discuss that!
 
In the end, his mixes with various other talents in music did the one thing that was not very common, and that was to mix music to such an extent ... that helped bring down the color barriers, which had been a massive issue in the 60's and even into the 70's ... up until that time, there were not many colored artists that sold in the rock areas or vice versa. Case closed ... it crosses and by its very existance forced one of the most visible changes in TV ... MTV had to wake up and realize that it was screwed up! ... and they should be big enough and honest enough to apologize and say thanks to Michael ... but they won't, they made their money off his music and videos. It just shows you how much respect there existed for other musics and musicians, specially colored folks at that time.
 
As such, someone that caused change where so many had given their lives, including Dr. Martin Luther King ... he is important, not only to "prog" but to a lot of music ... I'm not sure that he will ever be given credit for a lot ... for a while ... until the elvis'h rip offs get done ... I'm betting that there will be 4 albums of music and one of them is going to be massive (the 2nd one, not the 1st) ... so that more people can drain his heart and soul ... like they did.


Edited by moshkito - June 27 2009 at 15:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 18:02
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Oh please come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The next thing will be suggesting him for Prog Related. Angry
 
Iván
Why are you complaining?  We all know that you would vote for Michael Jackson before you voted for a legitimate prog related band like Boston.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 18:10
Originally posted by Green Shield Stamp Green Shield Stamp wrote:

Was Michael Jackson's music all that influential anyway?
Yes and no.  Thriller was amazingly influential, but a lot of credit should go to the very talented musicians he hired to back him up on that album.  And of course Thriller's impact on prog was minimal for a variety of reasons.
Want to know the one case of MJ's influence on prog that I would believe?  His 1991 release "Black or White" sounds suspiciously like Yes's 1994 release "The Calling."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2009 at 23:18
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

 
Yo, anyone, did Jamerson play bass on I Want You Back and ABC?  That would account for the level of difficulty.


Yes, James Jamerson played on almost everything that the Motown label put out back then, including the Jackson 5.

As for the original question of the thread, Michael Jackson absolutely had no effect on progressive rock, but any musician or producer worth their salt should be influenced by, or at least have a deep appreciation for the brilliant Quincy Jones, who produced much of his solo work.


Edited by jplanet - June 27 2009 at 23:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 06:40
Just because he didn't influence prog doesn't mean he wasn't hugely influential.  I wouldn't put him up on as high a pedestal as The Beatles, but he definitely influenced nearly every pop, r&b and rap artist after 1980, which is no small feat.
 
As far as him influencing prog, he really didn't.  His career started at the end of the 60s, the same time as most of the classic prog groups, but he was a little kid singing motown songs written by other people.  His style of singing was motown and r&b, which influenced some prog artists like Phil Collins in the 80s, but I wouldn't say it was Michael Jackson's work in the Jackson 5 that specifically influenced his early solo records.
 
Peter Gabriel, on the otherhand, may have been influenced a little bit dance-wise, if you watch some of his 80s concerts in which he incorporates dance coreography, something Micheal Jackson mastered like no other artist.  It really wasn't until the 80s that Jackson had any sort of influence on prog artists.  He worked with Paul McCartney on a few songs, and they probably influenced each other on those collaborations (before their falling out).  I think Jackson's influence on prog was felt more visually than musically, namely in the long epic videos which eventually was used by rock bands both prog and non-prog.  And as more and more prog bands became pop in the 80s and 90s, it's possible they were all somewhat influenced by "the king of pop" to some degree.  (ie Yes 90125 and "The Calling" as mentioned above).
 
But I think we're neglecting to mention how much prog influenced Micheal Jackson.  There's no doubt he was influenced by The Beatles to a large degree.  The extravagent stage shows and epic songs/storylines were something that started becoming popular with prog and Michael Jackson incorporated some of that into his videos and pop songs.  Some of the guitar playing on his songs (the finger tapping in Beat It for example) was influenced by prog.  The blending of different styles of music, though not purely a progressive feature, was definitely made popular by prog of the 70s, and something Michael Jackson did often in his music.  I would definitely say Michael Jackson was more influenced by prog than he influenced it.


Edited by Gianthogweed - June 29 2009 at 02:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 07:03
Originally posted by ClemofNazareth ClemofNazareth wrote:

WTF?

 

 
Hahaha...a serious reply at last!LOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 09:43
I love how any musician that is hugely famous is considered a large influence on music in general.

MJ was typical music of the time who happened to make it big. If he didn't, I guarantee you someone else like him would have, and music would be exactly where it is now.

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 09:57
Originally posted by Gianthogweed Gianthogweed wrote:

Just because he didn't influence prog doesn't mean he wasn't hugely influential.  I wouldn't put him up on as high a pedestal as The Beatles, but he definitely influenced nearly every pop, r&b and rap artist after 1980, which is no small feat.
 
As far as him influencing prog, he really didn't.  His career started at the end of the 60s, the same time as most of the classic prog groups, but he was a little kid singing motown songs written by other people.  His style of singing was motown and r&b, which influenced some prog artists like Phil Collins in the 80s, but I wouldn't say it was Michael Jackson's work in the Jackson 5 that specifically influenced his early solo records.
 
Peter Gabriel, on the hand, may have been influenced a little bit dance-wise, if you watch some of his 80s concerts in which he incorporates dance coreography, something Micheal Jackson mastered like no other artist.  It really wasn't until the 80s that Jackson had any sort of influence on prog artists.  He worked with Paul McCartney on a few songs, and they probably influenced each other on those collaborations (before their falling out).  I think Jackson's influence on prog was felt more visually than musically, namely in the long epic videos which eventually was used by rock bands both prog and non-prog.  And as more and more prog bands became pop in the 80s and 90s, it's possible they were all somewhat influenced by "the king of pop" to some degree.  (ie Yes 90125 and "The Calling" as mentioned above).
 
But I think we're neglecting to mention how much prog influenced Micheal Jackson.  There's no doubt he was influenced by The Beatles to a large degree.  The extravagent stage shows and epic songs/storylines were something that started becoming popular with prog and Michael Jackson incorporated some of that into his videos and pop songs.  Some of the guitar playing on his songs (the finger tapping in Beat It for example) was influenced by prog.  The blending of different styles of music, though not purely a progressive feature, was definitely made popular by prog of the 70s, and something Michael Jackson did often in his music.  I would definitely say Michael Jackson was more influenced by prog than he influenced it.

Excellent vice versa dude. Clap
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 10:12
I don't think it's necessary to be of a similar musical genre to be of influence. Many aspects can influence a musician, or inspire them. I truly believe Michael Jackson was of a much bigger influence than we prog folk give him credit for, and not just influentual to dance or pop acts.

NIck Barrett (Pendragon)  says he was influenced by him in his latest blog.
http://www.pendragon.mu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2647

W x
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 11:02
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

I love how any musician that is hugely famous is considered a large influence on music in general.

MJ was typical music of the time who happened to make it big. If he didn't, I guarantee you someone else like him would have, and music would be exactly where it is now.

+1
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 11:42

Gianthogweed and moshkito made the best posts here.  He was a huge part of breaking down prejudices in the states, and made music videos what they are.  I would not say he has a direct influence on much of what we call 'progressive rock' but anyone that big who is heard by that many people has an influence on almost all music made after or during their time.  An artist is influenced by an amalgamation of all they hear, and everyone has heard Micheal Jackson, whether they like it or not. 

I'm really pissed off by all of the jokes going on now, not on this site, but many of the statuses on FB and whatnot are just crude and disrespectful.  It sickens me.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2009 at 22:43
Soirry but it's absurd.
 
Influence in what?
 
Style: MJ's Pop is the opposite style to any Prog band
Structuiure: Not at all
Performance: MJ doesn't play a single instrument.
Similarities: Not a single one
Purpose: One is mainly for dancing, the other absolutely not.
 
So it's not prejudice, it's a fact, Michael Jackson's music has absolutely nothing in common with Prog.
 
This doesn't mesan one is good and the other is bad, simply that both are radically different.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2009 at 00:15
do you really think i was calling people prejudice?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2009 at 03:10
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Soirry but it's absurd.
 
 
Performance: MJ doesn't play a single instrument.
 
 
Iván
 
He played keyboards, guitar and bass.  I don't want to praise the guy too much because he was a sick and disturbed individual, but his contribution to music was undeniable, if overrated by some.  And I wouldn't say his style was opposite to any prog band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2009 at 09:28

I would say no, but if he did, he didn't influence the right way.

Imagination is the key to my lyrics, the rest is painted with a little science fiction - Jimi Hendrix
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