The Christian Thread

I read that heresy, instead of hearsay. 

I mean no offence by the way, I just think it's a bit unwise to call them Jesus' writings, when they're not.

I wonder if Jesus was a good carpenter. If he was crap, then that's probably why he went into the messiah business.

stonebeard wrote: I wonder if Jesus was a good carpenter. If he was crap, then that's probably why he went into the messiah business.

Perhaps the ultimate goal, then, is for man to follow his better nature without Christ's help, that way we could have morality without evangelism.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Sorry Epignosis, in my Bible Jesus replies: Matthew 19  21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor,  and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me   But he was clear, to reach salvation is only required to respect the Commandments.   For PERFECTION (Which as we know is not reachable byy man) he had to give everything to the poor to gain a treasutre in heaven (with this ACT he had already reached Heaven) and follow Jesus ios a logical consequence for those to believe in him.     Iván

Jesus says "Be perfect as my Father in Heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48- same chapter you have there)

Unreachable eh?  Yep...only if you depend on yourself to reach holiness (called perfection in some versions).

Jude 24-25 says this:

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Perfection is a process God guarantees  His children.  It does not come immediately, but is a process brought on by trial and troubles.

No matter how you figure it, the bottom line is this: Follow Jesus.  Follow the commandments?  The rich man said he had done that already, but Jesus said he was lacking- and by virtue of his question, the man knew he was lacking something.

Now a question for you:

Do you believe Jesus when he says, "No man comes to the Father except through me?" (John 14:6)

Very well- you said we shouldn't  take that literally.  So please tell me what it means non-literally?

(By the way, I have at least 20 scriptures that say the exact same thing as John 14:6).

Henry Plainview wrote: stonebeard wrote: I wonder if Jesus was a good carpenter. If he was crap, then that's probably why he went into the messiah business. Have you been watching Jim Gaffigan, or is that a really old joke?

I did bum it off a comic, if that's him, but it bears repeating.

How about we just admit that gay people aren't sinners and be done with it 

oh well then.


Send me to hell in a handbasket! Because I'm not apologizing for that either!

To Ivan (I didn't want to quote to avoid a large block of text):

Here are three things Jesus said, which I think sum up the issue pretty succinctly.

John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

Luke 6:46: "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

John 14:15- "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

Knowing Christ is the only way to eternal life.  You cannot follow Christ without repentance (A man cannot serve two masters).  Hence, you cannot be following Christ if you are not obedient to him.  So you are right to emphasize following God's commandments, but John 17:3 is how we are able to keep his commands (by knowing God- which is necessary for the first commandment anyway: "You shall have no other gods before me"). 

Without abiding in Jesus (following and knowing him), we cannot please God:

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)

Regarding Mathew 19, it's helpful to read all of it: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/mat019.htm

The last verses from the King James version:

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

It is open to interpretation, and one can read the different bible versions differently, but of course it is a call on people to follow him and not just adhere to the ten commandments.  It's one thing to abide by laws, it's another to really respect them and not just do no wrong, but do good and be righteous,.  It may be enough to achieve everlasting life, eventually, by merely following the commandments, but those who make greater sacrifices to follow the path of Jesus shall receive much greater rewards.

The last line is interesting.  Many of the Earth's privileged (say with money and power) will be the last to receive God's rewards, whereas those who suffer and sacrifice to do God's will be the first to be rewarded with everlasting life and other rewards.

Anyway, regarding Buddhism and Christianity, there are many similarities.  Teachings tended to spread quickly in that part of the world (the silk road brought trade and ideas), and I suspect that Jesus was influenced by Buddhist teachings.  My old church minister followed Buddhist teachings as well as Christian (he considered himself Christian in faith and Buddhist and Christian in philosophy).  There has been a strong multi-faith movement within that church, and the idea that there are different roads to God (and one need not follow a particular religion but one must be principled -- moral and righteous).