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Zargus 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 3491
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 Posted: June 19 2009 at 08:17 |
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"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people" - House.
Edited by Zargus - June 19 2009 at 08:19
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 08:25 |
 Zargus wrote:
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people" - House. |
Um...did you see the last episode of House? 
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 08:50 |
Epignosis wrote:
Zargus wrote:
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people" - House. |
Um...did you see the last episode of House?
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What happened? I love this show but I haven't been following it this year for a number of reasons.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 08:56 |
Spoiler Alert!
Well, in case you missed it, Kutner shot himself (a sudden and ridiculous way to get rid of his character since the actor was taking a new job with the Obama administration). All of a sudden, House starts seeing Wilson's dead girlfriend (who was killed in a bus crash). After a few episodes of this, House winds up checking into a mental institution (hence why I found the previous post really funny).
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 09:06 |
Epignosis wrote:
Well, in case you missed it, Kutner shot himself (a sudden and ridiculous way to get rid of his character since the actor was taking a new job with the Obama administration).
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It would have been way more cool to have the character leave for a job in a fictitious presidential administration. Hey, maybe I should be a writer.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 09:06 |
Epignosis wrote:
Spoiler Alert!
Well, in case you missed it, Kutner shot himself (a sudden and ridiculous way to get rid of his character since the actor was taking a new job with the Obama administration). All of a sudden, House starts seeing Wilson's dead girlfriend (who was killed in a bus crash). After a few episodes of this, House winds up checking into a mental institution (hence why I found the previous post really funny).
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Now don't be too smug, but the irony is great.
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 17:18 |
welcome to the non-religious thread everyone
first on the agenda: religion
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Ricochet
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Joined: February 27 2005
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Points: 46301
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 17:20 |
Leningrad wrote:
welcome to the non-religious thread everyone
first on the agenda: religion |
Not according to the opening statement and the first pages.
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 17:23 |
Ricochet wrote:
Leningrad wrote:
welcome to the non-religious thread everyone
first on the agenda: religion |
Not according to the opening statement and the first pages.
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Hey, you can have your 'original posts' and whatever you want. But when I come into a discussion, it starts where I start. 
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
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Points: 46301
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 17:27 |
Leningrad wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Leningrad wrote:
welcome to the non-religious thread everyone
first on the agenda: religion |
Not according to the opening statement and the first pages.
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Hey, you can have your 'original posts' and whatever you want. But when I come into a discussion, it starts where I start. |
Go ahead then, mighty preacher.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 21:35 |
Leningrad wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Leningrad wrote:
welcome to the non-religious thread everyone
first on the agenda: religion |
Not according to the opening statement and the first pages.
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Hey, you can have your 'original posts' and whatever you want. But when I come into a discussion, it starts where I start. |
Obviously, a non religious thread that eventually doesn't speak about religion (if only about its flaws or why people don't have one) is futile.
Religious people like Ricochet are more than welcome here. The "intellectual superiority" of pseudo-atheists is as detestable for me as the "moral superiority" of fanatics.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 21:54 |
Zargus wrote:
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people" - House. |
Ugh, I f*cking hate House. ANY chance of me being an atheist is now dead
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 22:01 |
Dylan, don't be an arse.  Erm, Téo, I didn't think Rico was religious... but I may have just confused there.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 22:05 |
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That's good to hear T.
I always found it hilarious, "These religious scum! Forcing their ideas down our throat! Now I'm going to go around telling all of them why they're wrong! And I'm gunna yell it"
.....
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 22:35 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
WHAT ROLE HAS RELIGION PLAYED IN HUMAN SOCIETY?
REMEMBER, BOYS AND GIRLS, HOW THE KING WAS DIVINELY CHOSEN TO RULE AND EXPLOIT THE PEASANTS, WHO WOULD HAVE TO WAIT FOR HEAVEN!
PROPAGATION OF A "GOD" IS A SOCIOLOGICAL PHENOMENON CORRESPONDING TO SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS AND IS AS LAW GUIDED AS THE PRACTICE OF WIPING OUR BUTTS
One day Humanity will see "God" as sensible as "natural" Slavery of the Greeks and Americans, as Feudalism, War, and Capitalism.
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Maybe, maybe, maybe. Just because religion has done bad and good things doesn't make it any less true. The problem as I see it is that there's simply no way to ever be sure something as crazy as a God is true or false. Sure we can say that it would be incredibly unlikely if the Bible were accurate as far as the miracles go, and that even through the years and translations the original stories and intent was kept, because surely if God wanted it to be true and spread throughout the world, he would have made sure the translators and texts were true to the original stories. But that's simply hard for me to believe, maybe not for others. That doesn't mean it couldn't be true. I just think the most logical thing to do is to be truly agnostic about the issue, but practically atheist.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 22:46 |
James wrote:
Dylan, don't be an arse.
Erm, Téo, I didn't think Rico was religious... but I may have just confused there.
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I always thought Rico was religious....
Whether he is or isn't is irrelevant for his freedom to post in this thread... of course.... this thread is not for discussing, say, a specific religious belief or idea, but to discuss atheism, agnosticism and other forms of secular ideas and lack of belief.... and if you're going to discuss not believing in something, I guess is difficult to do it without mentioning and also discussing the SOMETHING....
Edited by The T - June 19 2009 at 22:47
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 23:34 |
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Oh, I certainly have no problems with religious people posting here either. I just didn't think Rico was especially religious.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 23:38 |
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I must say I always found this quote by Richard Dawkins intriguing:
We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
Makes ya think at least.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: June 19 2009 at 23:42 |
Just a few notes on your post sio you don't say t's ignored
RoyFairbank wrote:
The burden of proof is on the believers, |
Why?
Tell me a reason why we need to `prove something to anybiody?
Most of us are not forcing anybody to believe, we're not selling a product, we have to prove nothing.
It's our choice too believe despite the absence of sciientific proof, which is equal for both sides, we can't give a tangible proof of God's existence, you can't give a proof of him not existing.
RoyFairbank wrote:
and no science can prove the existence of a Zues, a Quetzalcoatl or a Jehovah sitting up there in the sky and demanding the Vatican gets a tithe |
No science can prove the non existence of God, however you call him.
BTW; The Vatican receives no tithe from us, in my 44 years i have never paid or been esked for a dime by the Church, except the tuition of my school (which was very good and much cheaper than the non religious private schools) and the catholic university (The best for Laws and like 50% cheaper than any other good private university) and much more open, because there was no political direction (The Federation was in hands of the Atheist Commies for 30 years and I studied with several Jewish friends, something that diidn't happened in other universities controlled by political parties)
RoyFairbank wrote:
The little indrawn mathematicians who can prove a widget rotates at X speed can't prove that the Holy Dalai Lama is divinely fit to be autocrat of Tibet, |
The people of Tibet wants the Dalai Lama (Holy or not) and not the Chinese Government rulling them...Despite he's religious or not, "Vox populi, Vox dei"
RoyFairbank wrote:
The little indrawn astronomer who can prove background radiation can't prove that once again, medieval Aquinas's ridiculous cosmological argument has stretched but not snapped again! |
It may be flawed, but hardly ridiculous, still philosophers and even scientiosts say that it's flawed but can't point where the flaw is, it's well proposed, it's coherent, then it can't be ridiculous.
Aquina passed to the history, will the little indrawn astronomer pass also?
RoyFairbank wrote:
Where did the idea of Jehovah come from? ! |
According to us, by self revelation
RoyFairbank wrote:
WHAT ROLE HAS RELIGION PLAYED IN HUMAN SOCIETY? |
PLEASE, despite the mistakes accepted, the Church has played transcendental riole in the development of several societies.
RoyFairbank wrote:
REMEMBER, BOYS AND GIRLS, HOW THE KING WAS DIVINELY CHOSEN TO RULE AND EXPLOIT THE PEASANTS, WHO WOULD HAVE TO WAIT FOR HEAVEN! |
The idea of Kings divine right in a Post medieval Christian Society comes apparently from Jacques-Benigne Bossuet (It exists in different cultures since the dawn of humanity though) because he thought a Natural (Divine Law) ruled the nations, but not officially accepted by the Church,
Until the Reformation, all the Christians believed that the only authority placed by God was the Pope, when the Protestants split, the Catholics kept the same idea and the Protestants denied every divine right, even the one of the Pope.
As a fact Saint Augustine of Hippo on the VI Century in "The City of God" separates the City of God defined the body of believers and from the City of Man defined by the secular world.
So that's not something for which the church must be blamed.
RoyFairbank wrote:
PROPAGATION OF A "GOD" IS A SOCIOLOGICAL PHENOMENON CORRESPONDING TO SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS AND IS AS LAW GUIDED AS THE PRACTICE OF WIPING OUR BUTTS |
Every culture has the idea of a dinity, so it's inherent o the human being, so it's not a sociological phenomenom but a natural one.
RoyFairbank wrote:
One day Humanity will see "God" as sensible as "natural" Slavery of the Greeks and Americans, as Feudalism, War, and Capitalism. |
If you can see the distant future, please tell me who will win the super Bowl so I can place a bet, it must ne easier being closer.
RoyFairbank wrote:
The ghastly bible will be reserved for museum studies |
I doubt it, as long as there's humanity the Bible will most surely play an important role.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 20 2009 at 00:00
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 03:21 |
The T wrote:
James wrote:
The T wrote:
Religious people like Ricochet are more than welcome here. The "intellectual superiority" of pseudo-atheists is as detestable for me as the "moral superiority" of fanatics. |
Erm, Téo, I didn't think Rico was religious... but I may have just confused there. |
I always thought Rico was religious.... |
I'm not. At the level of being a religious practician, like going to church, praying and such, it's zero, thus I can be more than well described as a non-religious person. But I can't be called an atheist either. The more I think of it, the times I tend to shout "God doesn't exist" are just exercises of rebellious irony then deep beliefs. Then again, I have no clear idea what I believe in, and that troubles me at this stage. I'm at a crossroad, plain and simple.
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