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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:15
Originally posted by Keppa4v Keppa4v wrote:

Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by Keppa4v Keppa4v wrote:

I may finally be getting Dark Side of the Moon. I always thought it significantly weaker than WYWH, but now it worked perhaps better than ever. I may have to listen to it tomorrow again.


I am not a huge Pink Floyd fan at all.

They're alright. I do have all their albums though; I used to like them more.
WYWH is their only true masterpiece album in my opinion, but there's so much other good stuff in their catalogue that I too have ended up buying everything they have. One thing I'd like to see released is a compilation of all their non-album singles and b-sides. Relics has some of them and they are mostly brilliant.


Their masterpiece for me is Animals. The rest I could go the rest of my life without hearing again and I'd be fine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:22
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

The only thing that I didn't care for in Teo's opening post was the second paragraph where he (initially) trotted out the very old, tired, and to be honest offensive refrain that Republicans are by definition racist (the issue of it being about ethnicity, not race, notwithstanding).  Racism is a very ugly pejorative to be throwing around like that.


I feel the same.

I went to a historically black college where nearly all of the professors were bastions of liberal ideology.

Though I am white and conservative, don't believe for a second that I haven't experienced my share of bigotry and assumptions about my beliefs.  Minorities can be just as racist and narrow-minded (and sometimes get a pass for it).


Edited by Epignosis - May 27 2009 at 13:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:24
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

The only thing that I didn't care for in Teo's opening post was the second paragraph where he (initially) trotted out the very old, tired, and to be honest offensive refrain that Republicans are by definition racist (the issue of it being about ethnicity, not race, notwithstanding).  Racism is a very ugly pejorative to be throwing around like that.


Racism is very often improperly used instead of the more correct 'xenophobia' (= fear of strangers/foreigners), but its practical effects are the same. Obviously, I disagree with the axiom that EVERY Republican is a racist - however, what I have seen in my 48 years of life is that those execrable attitudes are generally more common in people who lean towards the right. You know, stereotypes are very often based on a grain of truth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:30
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

The only thing that I didn't care for in Teo's opening post was the second paragraph where he (initially) trotted out the very old, tired, and to be honest offensive refrain that Republicans are by definition racist (the issue of it being about ethnicity, not race, notwithstanding).  Racism is a very ugly pejorative to be throwing around like that.


I feel the same.

I went to a historically black college where nearly all of the professors were bastions of liberal ideology.

Though I am white and conservative, don't believe for a second that I haven't experienced my share of bigotry and assumptions about my beliefs.  Minorities can be just as racist and narrow-minded (and sometimes get a pass for it).


This is what I feel alot of people don't understand, and I think that alot of people get persecuted against at some point in the course of life.

Raff's right. I can't say I've ever been in the shoes of a minority, so I don't know what it feels like. But I have been in my shoes---and let me tell you, I've been persecuted by other people my ENTIRE life. Not for my race, but on the level of who I am. All because I always came across to other people as "weird".

When people try to tell me I don't understand persecution, I won't understand what it feels like to be anyone else's shoes---but no one else will understand how it is to have been in my shoes.

I went to Catholic schools for most of my life, and I am a fervent Atheist. You wouldn't believe the types of discriminatory responses I received.

It goes on an individual basis. We're all individuals, and people who are true to themselves will get persecuted by others notwithstanding of whether it's race, belief, or anything. That alone is often overlooked---and I feel that racism in modern society, particularly in the U.S., certainly goes BOTH WAYS all the time, and in equal quantities. It just manifests itself differently (and understandably so), and I certainly am sick of the idea that people can make racist comments all the time against white males and get away with it. I sometimes carry a chip on my shoulder not only for my first couple paragraphs, but also for that---but I know I do my best every day to treat every single person I run into based on their merits and individual qualities.

Teo's thread did NOT concentrate on that, and I think that's just sad.

If we're truly not being racist, who cares what race she is?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:31
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

The only thing that I didn't care for in Teo's opening post was the second paragraph where he (initially) trotted out the very old, tired, and to be honest offensive refrain that Republicans are by definition racist (the issue of it being about ethnicity, not race, notwithstanding).  Racism is a very ugly pejorative to be throwing around like that.


Racism is very often improperly used instead of the more correct 'xenophobia' (= fear of strangers/foreigners), but its practical effects are the same. Obviously, I disagree with the axiom that EVERY Republican is a racist - however, what I have seen in my 48 years of life is that those execrable attitudes are generally more common in people who lean towards the right. You know, stereotypes are very often based on a grain of truth.


Is that so?  Because I know of some awful stereotypes that I don't think you would agree is based on a grain of truth at all.

As I told Micky the other day- most Christians are quiet and sweet.  It's the loudmouth ones though that get the attention.  It's no different with conservatives- the loudest ones that stir the pot get the attention.

I guarantee you most Republicans aren't racists. I've met just as many racist liberals as I have conservatives.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:34
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

The only thing that I didn't care for in Teo's opening post was the second paragraph where he (initially) trotted out the very old, tired, and to be honest offensive refrain that Republicans are by definition racist (the issue of it being about ethnicity, not race, notwithstanding).  Racism is a very ugly pejorative to be throwing around like that.


Racism is very often improperly used instead of the more correct 'xenophobia' (= fear of strangers/foreigners), but its practical effects are the same. Obviously, I disagree with the axiom that EVERY Republican is a racist - however, what I have seen in my 48 years of life is that those execrable attitudes are generally more common in people who lean towards the right. You know, stereotypes are very often based on a grain of truth.


That's just not true. Sometimes they are; sometimes they aren't.

But that's irrelevant. Individuals are individuals, and each person should be treated on an individual basis. Any kind of stereotype is a bad thing. I don't care what the roots are or the people that are being stereotyped against.

I feel every individual has the right to treat others in the way that they deem rationally best. Maybe if most people didn't get so caught up on playing the blame game and making stereotypes AND we actually treated individuals as individuals, we'd all be nicer to each other and we wouldn't have to worry about stereotypes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:36
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

The only thing that I didn't care for in Teo's opening post was the second paragraph where he (initially) trotted out the very old, tired, and to be honest offensive refrain that Republicans are by definition racist (the issue of it being about ethnicity, not race, notwithstanding).  Racism is a very ugly pejorative to be throwing around like that.


Racism is very often improperly used instead of the more correct 'xenophobia' (= fear of strangers/foreigners), but its practical effects are the same. Obviously, I disagree with the axiom that EVERY Republican is a racist - however, what I have seen in my 48 years of life is that those execrable attitudes are generally more common in people who lean towards the right. You know, stereotypes are very often based on a grain of truth.


Is that so?  Because I know of some awful stereotypes that I don't think you would agree is based on a grain of truth at all.

As I told Micky the other day- most Christians are quiet and sweet.  It's the loudmouth ones though that get the attention.  It's no different with conservatives- the loudest ones that stir the pot get the attention.

I guarantee you most Republicans aren't racists. I've met just as many racist liberals as I have conservatives.



I echo Robert's response here as well.

I can't speak on the behalf of religion; I don't interact in a daily basis with regards to that anymore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:41
I am easily the only upper middle class white male professional that I interact with who is a Democrat.  I always kind of wonder why I lean Democrat because the Democratic party really doesn't do anything to my personal benefit, but I so despise most of what the Republican party stands for socially I just can't get myself to cross that line.  I am a fiscal conservative, and even personally I am quite conservative but I am very much a social democrate in my beliefs and for whatever reason that overrides my fiscal conservatism.

Edited by rushfan4 - May 27 2009 at 13:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:45
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I am easily the only upper middle class white male professional that I interact with who is a Democrat.  I always kind of wonder why I lean Democrat because the Democratic party really doesn't do anything to my personal benefit, but I so despise most of what the Republican party stands for socially I just can't get myself to cross that line.  I am a fiscal conservative, and even personally I am quite conservative but I am very much a social democrate in my beliefs and for whatever reason that overrides my fiscal conservatism.


I'm one of the few people in my neighborhood or class-range who leans the way that I do---and as extremely.

However, I hate aligning myself with either party; I think they both suck and I'm generally a very cynical person.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:55
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I am easily the only upper middle class white male professional that I interact with who is a Democrat.  I always kind of wonder why I lean Democrat because the Democratic party really doesn't do anything to my personal benefit, but I so despise most of what the Republican party stands for socially I just can't get myself to cross that line.  I am a fiscal conservative, and even personally I am quite conservative but I am very much a social democrate in my beliefs and for whatever reason that overrides my fiscal conservatism.


I'm one of the few people in my neighborhood or class-range who leans the way that I do---and as extremely.

However, I hate aligning myself with either party; I think they both suck and I'm generally a very cynical person.


I'd go with that.  But I still hang onto to an ideal that is consistent with my beliefs.  The Republican party is it, sadly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:03
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I am easily the only upper middle class white male professional that I interact with who is a Democrat.  I always kind of wonder why I lean Democrat because the Democratic party really doesn't do anything to my personal benefit, but I so despise most of what the Republican party stands for socially I just can't get myself to cross that line.  I am a fiscal conservative, and even personally I am quite conservative but I am very much a social democrate in my beliefs and for whatever reason that overrides my fiscal conservatism.


I'm one of the few people in my neighborhood or class-range who leans the way that I do---and as extremely.

However, I hate aligning myself with either party; I think they both suck and I'm generally a very cynical person.


I'd go with that.  But I still hang onto to an ideal that is consistent with my beliefs.  The Republican party is it, sadly.
Which are the opposite (too strong of a word) beliefs of mine and which always makes me laugh.  There are so many people who vote Republican because of those beliefs, and yet aside from those social issues which they disagree with the Democratic party's beliefs, they really should be democrats.  Seriously, unless you are a rich white male or a farmer there is no fiscal reason for you to vote Republican.  Which is what is funny about me voting Democratic because there truly is no fiscal reason for me to do so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:06
Deleted post; I'm sick of talking about this stuff.  So Scott, Wings/Pens should be a barnburner, looking forward to it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:13
If you don't think abortions are an option, guess what, you don't have to get an abortion if the situation arises.
If you believe it is important to go to church, then guess what, you can go to church.
If you don't believe in homosexual marriage, then guess what, you can marry a woman, and have secret liasions in the airport with your male friends.
 
These are all options that you can follow because you belong to your church.  I am perfectly fine with the church enforcing these beliefs on members of its church.  On the other hand, IMO the church has no business enforcing those beliefs on nonmembers of their church.    Again points that don't make a difference in my life, since I have no ability to get pregnant and have an abortion and I am smart/lucky enough to not have that issue.  I don't go to church and I am so thankful that in this country that isn't a hangable offense.  I have no interest in getting married to another male or meeting him in the airport lavatory.   And I suspect that the same can be said about all 3 of these items for each of you guys that are Republicans. 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:13
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I am easily the only upper middle class white male professional that I interact with who is a Democrat.  I always kind of wonder why I lean Democrat because the Democratic party really doesn't do anything to my personal benefit, but I so despise most of what the Republican party stands for socially I just can't get myself to cross that line.  I am a fiscal conservative, and even personally I am quite conservative but I am very much a social democrate in my beliefs and for whatever reason that overrides my fiscal conservatism.


I'm one of the few people in my neighborhood or class-range who leans the way that I do---and as extremely.

However, I hate aligning myself with either party; I think they both suck and I'm generally a very cynical person.


I'd go with that.  But I still hang onto to an ideal that is consistent with my beliefs.  The Republican party is it, sadly.
Which are the opposite (too strong of a word) beliefs of mine and which always makes me laugh.  There are so many people who vote Republican because of those beliefs, and yet aside from those social issues which they disagree with the Democratic party's beliefs, they really should be democrats.  Seriously, unless you are a rich white male or a farmer there is no fiscal reason for you to vote Republican.  Which is what is funny about me voting Democratic because there truly is no fiscal reason for me to do so.


Just a quick point...my beliefs are not just social ones.  I am a fiscal conservative also, even though I stay broke.  I'm not a "what's in it for me" kind of voter. Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:15
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by birdwithteeth11 birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Good one David.  I think the 4 stars is correct.

Thanks. As much as I like it, I think CRA and Crac! are an infinite number of times better.


I agree entirely.


Honestly, I have no idea how to judge that one... three, four... both could fit... I mean, now I've got the much stronger Crac! I hardly ever spin that one, though I love it.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:18
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Deleted post; I'm sick of talking about this stuff.  So Scott, Wings/Pens should be a barnburner, looking forward to it.
I'm not going to count any chickens before they hatch, but yes, if the Wings happen to beat the Black Hawks a series against the Penguins should be pretty good.  I think that the Penguins might be better than they were last year so it will be a tough series.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:19
Sorry about disappearing - I went to lie down for a bit, since I am feeling somewhat under the weather.

Anyway, thank you for a very civilised, constructive debate. Alex, Rob, you know I disagree with many of your views, but I respect you both as INDIVIDUALS (as both of you very rightly said - this is something I agree with profoundly), therefore I am happy to be able to discuss such topics with you. Being considerably older than you are, I have unfortunately seen a lot of intolerance (let's use this word instead of the more restricted 'racism') from every side of the political spectrum. I remember a slogan from the Seventies about 'male chauvinist comrades' (meaning left-wingers), which unfortunately was rooted in reality. I lived for eight years in Siena, one of the most nominally left-wing towns in Italy, and was treated like crap for all most of the time because I had not been born there.

Alex, I understand what you have been through very well (and I won't go into detail now - suffice it to say that I have often come across as 'weird' in the past). I can't say I am persecuted now, far from that, but I am aware I am considered differently from, for instance, my husband, who is a US citizen. In Siena, however, in my home country, I was persecuted (they tried to have me branded as mentally ill, and dismissed from my job), so I know how it feels.

As to your parties, obviously I don't recognise myself in either of them. My views go way beyond the Democratic Party, but are rooted in my experience as a human being. However, I won't go into that, because it would be too long, and boring for all of you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:21
Well, as a final thought I will give props to the Italian Communist Party for helping get Henry Cow a lot of gigs.  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:24
The Italian Communist Party has been long dead (though there is a minuscule party that still bears a similar name)LOL. And what about our friends Area? I think you'll find our new RPI definition quite interesting... I have personally taken care of the socio-political-cultural part.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:27
Hope you get to feeling better, Raff.
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