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akamaisondufromage 
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Joined: May 16 2009
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Points: 6797
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 Posted: May 17 2009 at 08:56 |
 el dingo wrote:
^Re AKAMAISON DU FROMAGE
I'm not joining in the musical debate (I liked Six Wives at the time, but haven't heard it in ages) but about the KING'S WIVES?
Oh no, not much for inspiration there then, just the odd beheading, religious/secular intrigue, securing the Royal succession, meeting that nobody Francis I of France on the Field of the Cloth of Gold, dying a sad and basically lonely death thru embarrassing STDs... and that's just the king!!!
Seriously, if that kinda sh*t don't get some musical notes flying round the cerebellum, what does?
Are you just jealous because Anne Boleyn's ghost walks near Norwich and not Bristol? 
That's a real by the way - I've been to Bristol a few times and like it |
Norwich is alright too! And you're right about the wives I just didn't find them intresting as a teenager! (I prefered live girls to historical ones). 
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Help me I'm falling!
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akamaisondufromage
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Joined: May 16 2009
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Points: 6797
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 08:49 |
In reply to 'Snow Dog'. you are right I'm not a 'Prog Fan' but I do like a lot of Canterbury scene stuff, Krautrock, Spacerock which features heavily on this site. (oh and early to mid Genesis too :see above)
But I am sure there are others out there who do concider themselves Prog Fans and DON'T like Rick Wakeman's opus. Or maybe I'm wrong?
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Help me I'm falling!
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 08:45 |
^Re AKAMAISON DU FROMAGE
I'm not joining in the musical debate (I liked Six Wives at the time, but haven't heard it in ages) but about the KING'S WIVES?
Oh no, not much for inspiration there then, just the odd beheading, religious/secular intrigue, securing the Royal succession, meeting that nobody Francis I of France on the Field of the Cloth of Gold, dying a sad and basically lonely death thru embarrassing STDs... and that's just the king!!!
Seriously, if that kinda sh*t don't get some musical notes flying round the cerebellum, what does?
Are you just jealous because Anne Boleyn's ghost walks near Norwich and not Bristol?
That's a real by the way - I've been to Bristol a few times and like it
Edited by el dingo - May 17 2009 at 08:48
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 08:38 |
Some mentioned In The Court Of The Krimson King. While I agree to a degree  , there's another side of the coin. Mellotron sounds dated. Absolutely. First, in the mid-seventies, paraphonic synthesizers came out (string machines), then polyphonic synths, then Fairlight samplers, then digital synths, putting Mellotron to the obsolecy. ITCOTCK sounds dated today, perhaps. But guess what? It was ahead of its time. No-one did such an approach and the layers flooded with melly before. It's a record from 1969! Only the Beatles (and perhaps a few others) showed such craftmanship in production at the time. Everything else sounded 'sixties', dry organ, fuzzing guitars, bucketful of drums, flat bass (bass is my only complaint about the 60s sound which I love to death). Colloseum, Jefferson Airplane, Barret's Pink Floyd - you can't miss the era they were recorded. Even the sophisticated The Nice with their early symphonic workouts actually sound similar. But ITCOCK sounds ahead of its time. It could have been recorded in any timeframe between 1970-1978. It set some standards for prog rock and rock in general. In my opinion, The Timelessness Prix should go to the Camel's debut. It's just incredible in its sounds. And yes, it contains vintage keyboards, Hammond through the wah wah pedal, Mellotrons but somehow...I don't know. But 'Never Let Go' could have been recorded in 1986!!! As for The Sounds Dated Prix, any prog record made after punk came in, but before 1981, well you know..loads of synths and slighlty going disco. If I have to cherry-pick one, that will be TRIUMVIRAT "Spartacus". I like it though.
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akamaisondufromage
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Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 08:10 |
fuxi wrote:
PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Rick Wakeman VI wives of Henry VIII. It was dated before he recorded it and now he's thretening to perform it live - God help us! Aaaagh! Ok I admit it it's not just that it's dated - its also rubbish! |
That album sounds great and fresh to my ears still |
It also sounds great and fresh to me! And I listen to all kinds of "serious" music... Is this just nostalgia? (I first discovered Rick in 1975.) Surely not... |
It may very well be nostalgia. I am sure that some of the stuff I love (Like Supper's Ready) has an exagerated effect on me due to being so young when I first listened to it (Over and over again I might add!). I am very guilty of disliking Henry's Wives cos even then, when I listened to Prog Prog and more Prog I couldn't get into the twidley didley keyboard stuff with no vocals to boot! And about some King's wives! Why do it?
Guilty as charged as I haven't listened to it since - there is too much good stuff out there to listen to - me thinks!
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Help me I'm falling!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 08:06 |
fuxi wrote:
PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Rick Wakeman VI wives of Henry VIII. It was dated before he recorded it and now he's thretening to perform it live - God help us! Aaaagh! Ok I admit it it's not just that it's dated - its also rubbish! |
That album sounds great and fresh to my ears still |
It also sounds great and fresh to me! And I listen to all kinds of "serious" music... Is this just nostalgia? (I first discovered Rick in 1975.) Surely not... |
How anyone can say that "Six Wives" is rubbish is beyond me, unless a non prog fan says it, then it makes sense.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 06:30 |
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Musically, I think some of it aged incredibly well, but man, some of those old Frank Zappa records have production that unfortunately just screams out the era it came from.
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 06:30 |
Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:
The pop rock/prog crowd could learn a thing or two from some good metal bands about how to write albums that age well.
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Oh Yes That's True
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 06:25 |
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Metallica's Kill 'Em All was released in the same year. 90125 dated horribly, whereas Kill 'Em All was just ahead of it's time. That album could have been released in 1989 and I'd honestly think it was from then instead of 1983 Same for Megadeth's Rust In Peace, that album sounds like it could have been written much later than when it was released.
The pop rock/prog crowd could learn a thing or two from some good metal bands about how to write albums that age well.
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 06:23 |
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 06:21 |
^ 
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 06:18 |
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All the "prog turned pop" stuff sounds horribly dated. I'd rather have sore testicles for an entire day than sit through 2 songs off 90125, it really is that disgustingly dated.
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Visitor13
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4702
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 05:57 |
Hercules wrote:
In the Court of the Crimson King. I used to think it was good at one time. Now, except for Epitaph, I can't listen to most of it. |
Heh, my opinion is the very opposite of yours. Awesome album, but 'Epitaph' is to be skipped at all costs. If '70s prog could ever be emo, that song was it. Gotta agree about prog Genesis - there are moments where it still sounds very fresh and inventive, but there's enough of the opposite as well.
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2459
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Posted: May 17 2009 at 05:31 |
PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Rick Wakeman VI wives of Henry VIII. It was dated before he recorded it and now he's thretening to perform it live - God help us! Aaaagh! Ok I admit it it's not just that it's dated - its also rubbish! |
That album sounds great and fresh to my ears still |
It also sounds great and fresh to me! And I listen to all kinds of "serious" music... Is this just nostalgia? (I first discovered Rick in 1975.) Surely not...
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: May 16 2009 at 20:03 |
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Unless you like Prog they've all aged badly:
A Play by Roy Fairbank:
KID 1: Awz geez, dez no booms and swears in diz song and no intimidationz vocalz
For a prog fan:
Uh, Pink Floyd 67-72, every band 67-72. That's pre-prog.
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PROGMONSTER2008
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 610
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Posted: May 16 2009 at 19:57 |
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Rick Wakeman VI wives of Henry VIII. It was dated before he recorded it and now he's thretening to perform it live - God help us! Aaaagh! Ok I admit it it's not just that it's dated - its also rubbish! |
That album sounds great and fresh to my ears still
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: May 16 2009 at 17:19 |
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I can put it in two ways, in somewhat of a contradiction.
1. From the major prog sub-genres, Symphonic Prog is the style that's bringing the least interesting and fresh ideas to the bands which are using it in the "by-the-book" style.
2. However, all the major Symphonic Prog albums keep offering me wonderful, refreshing experiences, almost 40 years after being written.
Therefore, I think it's not a problem inherent to the style, but to the approach of those bands I mentioned at No.1. Anyone got a better solution to my riddle?
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King Crimson776
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Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: May 16 2009 at 16:12 |
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I think prog has aged a lot better than other music from the 70's (disco, (early) new wave). Who cares if they used moogs and 70's futurism? 70's futurism still might be right about the future! :P Besides, the lyrics are timeless in my opinion because they never really talk about specific times or places, sometimes, but usually the lyrics are general and can relate to any time. So, sure, you can tell it's 70's, but being able to tell what era it's from doesn't take away timelessness. I can tell Bach is from the Baroque era, it doesn't mean he isn't timeless.
Edited by King Crimson776 - May 16 2009 at 16:13
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Turion
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Joined: July 06 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 93
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Posted: May 16 2009 at 16:11 |
As much as I LOVE the album and the songs contained in there, it could have been better recorded for sure. The compositions are top notch though.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: May 16 2009 at 16:05 |
el dingo wrote:
Hercules wrote:
In the Court of the Crimson King. I used to think it was good at one time. Now, except for Epitaph, I can't listen to most of it. |
He He... we're getting into dodgy territory already. Actually I'm with you on this one, but I bet it won't be long before the popular opinion that because of its relevance to prog per se it is unassailable comes along. |
Indeed. There are some on here who, if you asked them how the Universe began, they would answer "King Crimson started it". The fact is that other bands did prog albums before ITCOTCK and many bands did much better ones after. I could NEVER get bored of Selling England, The Snow Goose, Meddle or Aqualung (amongst many others), as the music is still fresh today.
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Prog albums that didn't age well
