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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Topic: US Government- Expand or Decrease? Posted: May 12 2009 at 19:41 |
It's a hard concept to grasp for many people, especially for
people who don't like change or want somebody "protecting them," and
everybody likes a handout.
Of course this is all theoretical, since this is never going
to happen anytime soon, but all empires fall eventually, as time shows.
But Is government necessary? Over pros and cons, are they really
listening to the people, or are the people just going along with
whatever decisions are made?
Does the government really do any good?
It appears to be that government keeps expanding and expanding and
officials hire 20 contracting business, drop a billion dollars of our
money, (which has been gun pointed at us- stolen), to go fix one
window.
So obviously the government uses our money to expand this
government empire and all its many useless bureaucracies. If we slowly
break down everything the government does, it seems unnecessary. Thing
like gun control, abortion, gay marriage, and drugs, should these be
government problems? Or should they be a more local community decision?
So lets face it, no matter what inspiration, rules and
morality can not be 100% Justly regulated, because any body of people
can become corrupted and that especially goes for an extremely large
body or officials.
So does a criminal really learn anything from spending his
life in prison system that tax payers pay for is it really necessary?
Why not have localized small court systems that fine people and put
people to death for however serious the crime. Do we really need a
police force? Why not a volunteer police force?
These have been some of the interesting topics my cousin has
brought up in the past, and he is an anarcho-capitalist, and I still
have a lot of trouble understanding a lot of his ideals, but that's the
problem, these ideals are never going to happen. Not when our
government is so big, and not with our officials who love for power can
corrupt basic moral rights.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 12 2009 at 19:43 |
Easy answer for me; the closest ideology I have is Objectivism.
Get the government out of our lives. Decrease.
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: May 12 2009 at 19:46 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Get the government out of our lives. Decrease.
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This.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 07:00 |
"In our country, you’re free and so you’re born and so they say, “You’re
free,” so happy birthday. And even if you were born to lose--even if
you were a complete wreck when you were born--you might still grow up
to be president ... because you’re free."
"You’re walking and you don’t always realize it but you’re always
falling at the same time. With each step you fall forward. Over and
over, you’re falling and then catching yourself from falling ... And
this is how you can be walking and falling at the same time."
"Well, he didn’t know what to do so he just decided to watch the
government and see what the government was doing and then kind of scale
it down to size--and run his life that way." Laurie Anderson
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 13 2009 at 12:00
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 08:17 |
Im gunna go the Obama road and say: I don't really care about a BIG or SMALL government, I'd like a SMART government.
Actually, I rather like that. I am liberal, and support social programs/spending all that good stuff. However, there are always serious problems and I'll for some cutting/reforming.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 08:50 |
Brian makes my point really - I wouldn't mind supporting government programs of any type if they could be shown to be successful - if there was accountability, a well-defined goal and set of metrics on which to judge the efficacy of said program, and the will to eliminate a program if it isn't working. However, there's pretty much nothing like this going on in the U.S. Federal government, and hasn't been for a long time.
I'm in favor of more power to state and local governments and decreasing the power of the central government - as I believe the founders of this country wished it to be. Unfortunately that reality has long since died, such that I feel the 10th Amendment has been rendered utterly useless.
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 09:27 |
I think the central government is a big mess, and a lot of money is being thrown around, and i really don't like the fact that it is our money being put into schools, prisons and abortion clinics. I think those kinds of things should be donation, and volunteer and not affiliated with the central government.
I think the public school systems would also be a lot better if the students could volunteer to go to school, i mean you set yourself up for disaster when you stick kids in a prison and tell them they can't talk to eachother haha. And I was just reading an article about Obama wanting to make the school day even longer and even have it on Saturdays. Kids don't learn anything in highschool, they learn to be "obiedent maybe, and but all they do is cram for tests and then forget all the information. Then they are put into social caste systems and try and not escape from reality with drugs and other resources.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 09:28 |
Padraic wrote:
Brian makes my point really - I wouldn't mind supporting government programs of any type if they could be shown to be successful - if there was accountability, a well-defined goal and set of metrics on which to judge the efficacy of said program, and the will to eliminate a program if it isn't working. However, there's pretty much nothing like this going on in the U.S. Federal government, and hasn't been for a long time.
I'm in favor of more power to state and local governments and decreasing the power of the central government - as I believe the founders of this country wished it to be. Unfortunately that reality has long since died, such that I feel the 10th Amendment has been rendered utterly useless.
| I can't even trust the US Postal Service anymore. They've screwed me out of $104.44. The package I sent was the size of a small refrigerator, and they seem to have lost it.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 09:52 |
hawkcwg wrote:
I think the central government is a big mess, and a lot of money is being thrown around, and i really don't like the fact that it is our money being put into schools, prisons and abortion clinics. I think those kinds of things should be donation, and volunteer and not affiliated with the central government.
I think the public school systems would also be a lot better if the students could volunteer to go to school, i mean you set yourself up for disaster when you stick kids in a prison and tell them they can't talk to eachother haha. And I was just reading an article about Obama wanting to make the school day even longer and even have it on Saturdays. Kids don't learn anything in highschool, they learn to be "obiedent maybe, and but all they do is cram for tests and then forget all the information. Then they are put into social caste systems and try and not escape from reality with drugs and other resources.
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I've been in favor of a complete redo of the schooling system for a while now; and I think if we trimmed ALL the crap in the government and truly opened up schools to compete in the private sector: not only would schools be more pressured to hire better teachers and meet better standards (or they would be out of business in no time), but tuition would be cheaper and parents could send children to schools that they personally felt met their standards at a much more affordable price.
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 10:00 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 10:37 |
hawkcwg wrote:
I like how was done in ancient times, children would voluntarily meet up and listen to philosophers speak and really take in the subjects they were interested in.
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Do you really want American youngster to be even more stupid than they're right now? If schools were made voluntary, most youngster will prefer to try to get some "quick cash money" instead of trying to better themselves and actually making much more money in the future... (as money is the only thing that matters for some).
American high-schools are so atrocious... Now make them voluntary... Damn....
About the question, I want the government out of my life in private issues as abortion (allow it), drugs (legalize them), gay marriage (allow it) and so.... I want government in issues like economy regulation, healthcare system, workers rights, etc....
Gun control is the only so-called private issue where I want the government to step in and impose it. Actually, it's not private: it c eases to be private when you can use your gun to kill...
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 10:54 |
The T wrote:
hawkcwg wrote:
I like how was done in ancient times, children would voluntarily meet up and listen to philosophers speak and really take in the subjects they were interested in.
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Do you really want American youngster to be even more stupid than they're right now? If schools were made voluntary, most youngster will prefer to try to get some "quick cash money" instead of trying to better themselves and actually making much more money in the future... (as money is the only thing that matters for some).
American high-schools are so atrocious... Now make them voluntary... Damn....
About the question, I want the government out of my life in private issues as abortion (allow it), drugs (legalize them), gay marriage (allow it) and so.... I want government in issues like economy regulation, healthcare system, workers rights, etc....
Gun control is the only so-called private issue where I want the government to step in and impose it. Actually, it's not private: it c eases to be private when you can use your gun to kill... |
Well schools not for everyone, so why force it on children that are going to mess up there lives anyway? Have you ever wandered why the school systems are so bad? I'm 17 and love to learn, and have learned a lot more homeschooling than in the public school system, I would love to go to school, if I wasn't forced to go. There is such a thing as people wanting to learn. that's what compelled people to sit down and listen to sessions and lectures by professors and philosophers in old times. Can you believe they give you a detention at schools for being two minutes late 3 times? Kids spend more time out of the learning environment then in it. They don't put the children in mind, a lot of people and especially in this day and age have a lot of issues and they have no compassion for things like a broken down car.
Edited by hawkcwg - May 13 2009 at 11:00
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:00 |
Hey, I gotta an idea, let's excrese the US gorvenment.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:05 |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:10 |
The T wrote:
hawkcwg wrote:
I like how was done in ancient times, children would voluntarily meet up and listen to philosophers speak and really take in the subjects they were interested in.
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Do you really want American youngster to be even more stupid than they're right now? If schools were made voluntary, most youngster will prefer to try to get some "quick cash money" instead of trying to better themselves and actually making much more money in the future... (as money is the only thing that matters for some).
American high-schools are so atrocious... Now make them voluntary... Damn....
About the question, I want the government out of my life in private issues as abortion (allow it), drugs (legalize them), gay marriage (allow it) and so.... I want government in issues like economy regulation, healthcare system, workers rights, etc....
Gun control is the only so-called private issue where I want the government to step in and impose it. Actually, it's not private: it c eases to be private when you can use your gun to kill... |
Yup, yup, yup, yes, and....yup. Right on bro.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:10 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Hey, I gotta an idea, let's excrese the US gorvenment.
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*brain explodes* Does that mean it remains the same because they cancel out?
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:13 |
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:37 |
Socialism is OK when you're as ridiculously right-wing and individualist as the US is. To be fair, I'm in favour of expanding the role of British government, as long as it's done in the right way (as soon as the socialists lose the working-class-obsession, I'm on their side).
About the question, I want the government out of my life
in private issues as abortion (allow it), drugs (legalize them), gay
marriage (allow it) and so.... I want government in issues like economy regulation, healthcare system, workers rights, etc....
Gun control is the only so-called private issue where I want the
government to step in and impose it. Actually, it's not private: it c
eases to be private when you can use your gun to kill... |
Is a brilliant post. As a liberal leftist nowadays, I'd agree with all of those. The one thing I find quite odd about the current government is the complete failure to even really consider relegalising some of the less significant drugs. My fear, really, is that every time we give the government a liberty, they're not going to think of giving it back. That said, I'm British, so I'm merely speaking from a political philosophy viewpoint, not an American citizen's one.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:38 |
Padraic wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Hey, I gotta an idea, let's excrese the US gorvenment.
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At first I read that as "excrete" - which, while painful, isn't a bad idea
| Maybe that's why Bush always looked like he was suffering from hemorrhoidal discomfort.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 12:45 |
I have to go number three.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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