Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > Just for Fun
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - SR V: To boldly go where no room has gone before
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedSR V: To boldly go where no room has gone before

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2021222324 636>
Author
Message
TGM: Orb View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:39
@Shajamus, stop being obtuse Tongue

@Alex, I'm fairly confident (I've got some experience with this sort of thing, but I'm not always right Wink) that, from a technical/pure-poetic standpoint, Hammill's lyrics are, by and large, a cut above Peart's (in the same way that T.S. Eliot is technically leagues ahead of either of them). On the other hand, I can (I think) understand where you're coming from, and appreciate how the 'content'/meaning of them wouldn't work for you.

But yeah, Peart's the right lyricist for Rush and he's quite good... I guess my annoyance at seeing something like Hemispheres being suggested as a best lyric ever is the same feeling Harry gets when he sees Steven Wilson get mentioned in a 'most technical guitarists' thread LOL

Anyway, overall, agree, people are allowed to like things as much as they like them, just wanted to mention that there is a generally objective side to lyrics/poetry as much as there is to, say, musical performance.
Back to Top
MovingPictures07 View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:39
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

He just has a high tolerance.  It's not like he's a raging drunk who's being destructive.


Exactly.
Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:40
Hmmm, well Hammill's lyrics are different with every song.  Some are easier to understand than others.

e.g.

(No More) the Sub-mariner
In my youth, I played at trains: now all steam is gone.
In my dreams, brief shelter from the rain,
I try to catch the fireglow....
With Dinky Toys, I thought that I was Stirling,
with cricket bat, I saw myself as Peter May;
now, with all these images returning,
I wonder who I am today?

As a child, I refought the war
with plastic planes and imagination:
I sank Tirpitz, blew up the Mohne dam, all these and more,
I was the saviour of the Nation!
Oh! To be the captain of a ship of war!
The pilot of a Tempest or a York!
To hold my trench against the Panzer Korps
instead of simply being one who talks
and reminisces of his fantasies,
as though life was nothing but to lose...
these only antecede the knowledge that, eventually,
he must choose.

It's a hallmark of adulthood
that our options diminish
as our faculties for choice increase,
till we choose everything and nothing,
too late, at the finish.

In my youth, I held belief: my faith and thought were strong.
But now I'm stripped of every leaf,
and it robs me of the sight of right and wrong.
Oh! To be the son of Che Guevara!
One unit in the serried ranks of black!
A Papist or an Orangeman, a eunuch...
then doubt would never cast the dagger in my back.
Oh! To be King John or Douglas Bader,
Humphrey Bogart or Victor Mature!
Which one is false and easy,
which one harder?
Of that,
of this,
of me
I'm really not too sure.



That's straitforward to me.  It also happens that the music is also fantastic.  You should try Hammill solo, his lyrics are different to VdGG ones for a reason.
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:41
OK Roblov, I think we're getting somewhere with Plague this go-round.
Back to Top
LinusW View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:42
Bah.

Time for me to read a lot. Will be back to vent my angst in a couple of hours.

See you.
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:42
(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.
Back to Top
Ricochet View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:44
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

It baffles me how you're wife accepts your supposedly daily lean towards alcohol. 


She doesn't.


Then?


I'll just quote my favorite story from James Joyce to sum it up:

"His wife was a little sharp-faced woman who bullied her husband when he was sober and was bullied by him when he was drunk."


ShockedLOL
Clap
Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:44
Excellent.

We're getting there slowly. Big smile
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45
I need to listen to all my VdGG albums more.

They require a lot of work to appreciate, for me.
Back to Top
MovingPictures07 View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

@Shajamus, stop being obtuse Tongue

@Alex, I'm fairly confident (I've got some experience with this sort of thing, but I'm not always right Wink) that, from a technical/pure-poetic standpoint, Hammill's lyrics are, by and large, a cut above Peart's (in the same way that T.S. Eliot is technically leagues ahead of either of them). On the other hand, I can (I think) understand where you're coming from, and appreciate how the 'content'/meaning of them wouldn't work for you.

But yeah, Peart's the right lyricist for Rush and he's quite good... I guess my annoyance at seeing something like Hemispheres being suggested as a best lyric ever is the same feeling Harry gets when he sees Steven Wilson get mentioned in a 'most technical guitarists' thread LOL

I understand that. I am not a poet; I only speak the musical language. Therefore, poetry to me doesn't quite have the same meaning to me as it would to someone who is passionate about poetry or literature... just like how music doesn't quite have the same meaning to someone who is passionate about music and to someone who isn't.


Because of that, the most I have to go by when it comes to lyrics is more instinctual. I'm much more attune to the music of a song than the lyrics--I typically think that the music is more important, and I listen to music entirely on the basis of understanding what is going with the musical language, not the English. I do know though that it entirely depends on the case. Sometimes lyrics are just as important, or more important. Everything is treated on an individual piece by piece basis.


The problem with VDGG is that the music doesn't work for me at all. And usually I am pretty tolerant of lyrics I don't care for as much because the music is good--they cancel out the lyrics. In VDGG, the lack of anything interesting in the music (for me, anyway) allows my mind to think about the lyrics more. Incidentally, the lyrics are entirely to the opposite of my innate, instinctual preference.


Anyway, overall, agree, people are allowed to like things as much as they like them, just wanted to mention that there is a generally objective side to lyrics/poetry as much as there is to, say, musical performance.

I agree completely with that, and I'd never say I'm qualified enough in the realms of literature or poetry to say that Peart is, compositionally, and based purely on terms of lyricism, better than Hammill. What I have to go on here mostly is preference, as I'm a musician first.

Back to Top
Ricochet View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.


Cha cha cha!
Back to Top
TGM: Orb View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

OK Roblov, I think we're getting somewhere with Plague this go-round.


Hug Have many points... it took me about 20 lessons to really get that album (I liked it from the first try, I just didn't get what it was trying to do/why I liked it/how good it was etc.. I'm still not sure I've got everything.

@Sha-jamus... you're still being a bit obtuse. Alex's point is that he doesn't agree with Hammill's worldview/ideas, so consequently something more straightforwards isn't really going to change his mind.
Back to Top
Ricochet View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I need to listen to all my VdGG albums more.

They require a lot of work to appreciate, for me.


I last did a VdGG marathon in December 07.


Edited by Ricochet - May 11 2009 at 15:46
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.


Cha cha cha!


Sound Chaser?
Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46
But those lyrics are not typical Hammill.

That's my point.
Back to Top
TGM: Orb View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

@Shajamus, stop being obtuse Tongue

@Alex, I'm fairly confident (I've got some experience with this sort of thing, but I'm not always right Wink) that, from a technical/pure-poetic standpoint, Hammill's lyrics are, by and large, a cut above Peart's (in the same way that T.S. Eliot is technically leagues ahead of either of them). On the other hand, I can (I think) understand where you're coming from, and appreciate how the 'content'/meaning of them wouldn't work for you.

But yeah, Peart's the right lyricist for Rush and he's quite good... I guess my annoyance at seeing something like Hemispheres being suggested as a best lyric ever is the same feeling Harry gets when he sees Steven Wilson get mentioned in a 'most technical guitarists' thread LOL

I understand that. I am not a poet; I only speak the musical language. Therefore, poetry to me doesn't quite have the same meaning to me as it would to someone who is passionate about poetry or literature... just like how music doesn't quite have the same meaning to someone who is passionate about music and to someone who isn't.


Because of that, the most I have to go by when it comes to lyrics is more instinctual. I'm much more attune to the music of a song than the lyrics--I typically think that the music is more important, and I listen to music entirely on the basis of understanding what is going with the musical language, not the English. I do know though that it entirely depends on the case. Sometimes lyrics are just as important, or more important. Everything is treated on an individual piece by piece basis.


The problem with VDGG is that the music doesn't work for me at all. And usually I am pretty tolerant of lyrics I don't care for as much because the music is good--they cancel out the lyrics. In VDGG, the lack of anything interesting in the music (for me, anyway) allows my mind to think about the lyrics more. Incidentally, the lyrics are entirely to the opposite of my innate, instinctual preference.


Anyway, overall, agree, people are allowed to like things as much as they like them, just wanted to mention that there is a generally objective side to lyrics/poetry as much as there is to, say, musical performance.

I agree completely with that, and I'd never say I'm qualified enough in the realms of literature or poetry to say that Peart is, compositionally, and based purely on terms of lyricism, better than Hammill. What I have to go on here mostly is preference, as I'm a musician first.



Thumbs Up Absolutely fine by me.
Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.


Cha cha cha!


Sound Chaser?


The Sleepwalkers. Wink
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.


Cha cha cha!


That's "Sound Chaser."  You're not even with the right bandLOLWink
Back to Top
Ricochet View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:47
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.


Cha cha cha!


Sound Chaser?


Not. Wink
Back to Top
Ricochet View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:47
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):

I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.


Cha cha cha!


That's "Sound Chaser."  You're not even with the right bandLOLWink


You sure you listened to Godbluff? Wink
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2021222324 636>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.941 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.