Genesis the most influential prog band?

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

 Alberto Muñoz wrote:

 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 rogerthat wrote:

^^^

Hmmm..that's a bit off topic or rather the sub-topic , broken the train of thought, so to speak.  I wasn't discussing the relative merits of the bands or their egoistic tendencies.  If you want to ask me about Genesis, I can tell you that they are my favourite prog rock band of all time and I think it will stay that way for a long time to come.   I felt uncomfortable with some of the statements Banks or Rutherford made about the prog period, but like hell I care about it when I listen to their albums, it does not stop me drooling over Rutherford's basslines on In The Cage or Banks's beautiful opening to Fountain of Salmacis.  

That's a different problem IMHO Rogerthat, Genesis developed a different style and lost their original fanbase who gave them a chance in ATTW3 and Duke, but hated them when released ABACAB., there was a concert in which Phil was booed and he insulted the audience because they were claiming for older material. 
But Genesis had gathered a new fanbase and a business mind, so in order to keep the new and bigger fanbase they had to break with their Progressive Rock past. 
This is so obvious that Phil during the 80's said a lot of aberrations, you just need to get the DVD biography "Genesis a History" where Phil says more or less: 

We were only remotely popular when Peter left 
I will never let Peter come back 
Thanks God for Punk, they shacked the trees and the older big bands fell like bad apples 
I rather listen a punk band than Yes or Pink Floyd 
On another interview he said "I never understood The Lamb"
But it was pose, because when the band lost the popularity, he changed his speech:

The Lamb has always been my favorite album 
I would only go to a reunion if peter sings and I stay on the Drums 
Yes was always one of my favorite bands.
But none of both statements is 100% truth or false, after loosing the POP fanbase, their hopes were placed in the faithful Prog fans, he never expected the 3 men reunion tour be so successful, so I don't know what he thinks now.
Iván 

Would be interest to ask him 

I often wonder if Phil is lying in the interviews, or if he simply changed his mind with the times.  I have a feeling it's more the latter.  But I can understand why his changing opinions infuriates a lot of Genesis fans (myself included).

Bill Bruford once said in an interview about his time with Genesis that Phil Collins seems like the kind of person that cares a little too much about what other people think about him.  And I think this might be part of the reason for his changing opinions.  Does he have an opinion of his own, or does he just try to say something to make him more well liked with a certain crowd?  The thing is, in all the interviews I've heard him speak, he sounds very sincere, and has very good reasons backing up his opinions, so I'm not so quick to dismiss him as someone who simply says what needs to be said in order to sell more copies of his latest record.

In his early interviews, when he was still just a drummer with Genesis and Peter was the singer, he said he was a big fan of Yes when he first joined and kind of helped move Genesis in that direction with the longer instrumentals.  I think, during the early days at least, Phil was a big fan of prog.  He did have a love of pop and motown, but he loved the music he was making in Genesis and loved a lot of the music of his peers.

It wasn't until the early 80's that his opinions changed.  Maybe it's because he became more of a singer and less of a drummer, so he had more of an appreciation of pop music and became more disinterested with prog and jazz fusion.  It is a shame that he became dismissive of the old prog stuff they used to play.  But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  He was playing that music for a decade and he was probably getting tired of singing it.  He didn't feel comfortable singing Peter's songs and a lot of Tony's lyrics, and wanted to move on.  He also was probably starting to get angrier at fans that weren't supportive of his change in style and who were accusing him of selling out, so he kind of just told them to f**k off in his own way, by dismissing the old songs and saying that he never liked prog.

I have a feeling he didn't mean a lot of what he said in the 80s though, about him never liking prog, or the old Genesis music.  It contradicts what he said before, and what he has said since.  I'm sure a lot of it was business minded too.  He wanted to sell his records to a new audience, and seperate himself from prog.  In doing so he alienated his old fans but gained a lot of new ones.  It's kind of funny thinking about it now because almost no one associates Phil Collins with prog anymore.  In fact most people don't even know he was a drummer for Genesis.  But I guess, back in the early 80s, it was a different story.  He certainly was successful at seperating himself from prog.  He got tired of playing the old songs, got tired of prog, started liking new music, made some offhand comments, some he meant, some he didn't really mean.  Now he's passed that, he can look back on the old music in fondness again and remembers what originally attracted him to it.  He also doesn't have a new record to sell, so he can be more honest.

As far as who is the most influential prog band.  Genesis is definitely up there, but not the most influential.  I think there are six bands that I would name as the most influential prog bands of all time.  King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull and ELP.  All were influential for different reasons, and they influenced each other in different ways.  Genesis, like Pink Floyd, is one of those bands who influenced bands both in and out of prog, so they are definitely an important one.  I would rate Pink Floyd a little higher because their prog albums have reached a wider audience.  If your just looking at the influence on prog bands, I think they are tied with King Crimson and Yes, but I would have to put King Crimson slightly higher simply because the album, In the Court, was such a big influence on Yes and Genesis.  Still because Genesis's music has arguably influenced more bands outside of prog, they are definitely worthy of the title.

Edited by Gianthogweed - April 21 2009 at 17:25