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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: April 09 2009 at 15:30 |
No they're not, and I'm no big fan of them, only have 3 of their albums, and love 2 of them, and started the disliking the one left.
They're awesome musicians, and write some incredible Metal, which is, duh, Prog Metal...
BTW, I completely don't understand this statement of the OP: "I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion", man, relax? Has it occured to you that Metal is in general, quite the opposite of 'relax'.... dude, if you listen Prog to relax, better stay away of Heavy Prog, and all the Metal sub-genres, and you can also include a lot of other bands, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, many others....
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: April 09 2009 at 16:40 |
progkidjoel wrote:
Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:
progkidjoel wrote:
Well to begin with, I think DT are Over rated. Sure, they are incredibly technically talented, but I feel as a Prog Metal band, they have a long way to come before they deserve any more of my money. First of all, I find them to be incredibly unexpressive. Some songs are an exception, (Wait for sleep, Surrounded) but overall, I find their lyrics to be incredibly shallow and often ridiculously lame. Second of all, DT show off way too much. It seems to me when they are writing a new song/album, John Petrucci must sit there wondering where he could fit a guitar solo. DT do a lot better when they stick to some basic themes and softer melodies. Third of all, they aren't very compositionally talented. For example, "Take The Time." It has good solos, terribly lame lyrics and overall bad vibes for me. I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion, Not to listen to incredibly unoriginal guitar solos and cheesy lyrics. But thats just my opinion. |
"Third of all, they aren't very compositionally talented".And yet you state 'for example' and then totally don't even state why you feel this way."It has good solos, terribly lame lyrics and overall bad vibes for me" does not tell anyone about the compositional methods and techniques they use that you feel make them 'compositionally untalented'.Care to expand on this for us and you know, make your opinion a little more credible instead of making blanket statements and saying things you can't even back up? |
I just think (using "Take The Time") as an example, that DT more than often come off with an unbelievably Camp and whiney fashion. Describing their lyrics as uninspired for "Take The Time" would be an understatement. I find DT nearly unlistenable (call me old fashioned) due to their mass of lyrical barf and compositional unoriginality. Honestly, Spinal Tap comes off less cheesier than Dream Theater.
The techniques they use which "make them 'compositionally untalented'." often involve (as I said in the original post) John Petrucci adding pointlessly and uninspiringly fast guitar solos, which for me, carry little importance. I also find Mike Portnoy's drumming to be overly strong all the time. Compared to Phil Collins, he may be faster, but is in no way as musically talented.
On the other hand, I found the lyrics, vocals and general feelings and emotions provoked by some softer songs by DT (for example, Space Dye Vest, Anna Lee and Hollow Years) to be uplifting and genuinely enjoyable. What troubles me with DT is the fact that i have to scoop through the metal to find something I consider truly progressive, and this is why I'd consider a majority of their work inept and intolerably over the top.
I felt that Dream Theater went down with the departure of Kevin Moore, their first Pianist. Kevin was an excellent writer and lyricist. For example, Kevin not only wrote the lyrics and harmony for "Surrounded" but also for "Space Dye Vest". I find Kevin's work on his solo project, Chroma Key, to be overall alot better lyrically and emotionally much more engaging than Dream Theater have produced in the last ten years.
Thankyou, I hope that elaborates on any areas that may have been... less than clear. I mainly made this poll because two of my friends say Dream Theater are the best Prog band, bar none. |
Read the bolded passage and answer again, this time, actually ANSWERING the question rather than dragging things off the track. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. In fact a brick wall would have better answers because at least someone could carve something intelligent into it for people to read. Telling me that you feel certain songs have "uninspiring fast guitar solos" or that "Mike Portnoy's drumming to be overly strong all the time" does not really address the issue. Key words: musical composition.
Tell me about this in regards to Dream Theater and why you believe the band to be lacking in compositional prowess.
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: April 09 2009 at 23:09 |
Yes - I have several DT albums but the only one I can seriously listen to is "Awake". I have yet to understand what the hype is with "Scenes..".
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 06:23 |
valravennz wrote:
Yes - I have several DT albums but the only one I can seriously listen to is "Awake". I have yet to understand what the hype is with "Scenes..". |
Haven't you heard? The Fanboys like it, now you can see what all the hype about it is.
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 07:02 |
Yes they are!
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 11:34 |
No they're just so bad ass that everyone recognizes them. Like Metallica or Iron Maiden.
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 11:37 |
cacho wrote:
No they're not, and I'm no big fan of them, only have 3 of their albums, and love 2 of them, and started the disliking the one left.
They're awesome musicians, and write some incredible Metal, which is, duh, Prog Metal...
BTW, I completely don't understand this statement of the OP: "I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion", man, relax? Has it occured to you that Metal is in general, quite the opposite of 'relax'.... dude, if you listen Prog to relax, better stay away of Heavy Prog, and all the Metal sub-genres, and you can also include a lot of other bands, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, many others....
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I can relax to death metal and prog metal its just got to be your gig man, I listen to metal for the musicianship and complexity and it helps me get work done as well, it gives you that extra push.
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 11:38 |
hawkcwg wrote:
cacho wrote:
No they're not, and I'm no big fan of them, only have 3 of their albums, and love 2 of them, and started the disliking the one left.
They're awesome musicians, and write some incredible Metal, which is, duh, Prog Metal...
BTW, I completely don't understand this statement of the OP: "I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion", man, relax? Has it occured to you that Metal is in general, quite the opposite of 'relax'.... dude, if you listen Prog to relax, better stay away of Heavy Prog, and all the Metal sub-genres, and you can also include a lot of other bands, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, many others....
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I can relax to death metal and prog metal its just got to be your gig man, I listen to metal for the musicianship and complexity and it helps me get work done as well, it gives you that extra push.
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Its head bobbing music so its relaxing but you have to like that genre first.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:36 |
Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:
valravennz wrote:
Yes - I have several DT albums but the only one I can seriously listen to is "Awake". I have yet to understand what the hype is with "Scenes..". |
Haven't you heard? The Fanboys like it, now you can see what all the hype about it is.
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Mind explaining that little theory of yours a little bit more?
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:52 |
^Haha, relax bro. Man, I don't need to put emoticons into every post I make to make people aware I'm not being overly serious? The way I worded that post was deliberately done as to make people understand it shouldn't be taken seriously.
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:23 |
progkidjoel wrote:
Well to begin with, I think DT are Over rated. Sure, they are incredibly technically talented, but I feel as a Prog Metal band, they have a long way to come before they deserve any more of my money.
First of all, I find them to be incredibly unexpressive. Some songs are an exception, (Wait for sleep, Surrounded) but overall, I find their lyrics to be incredibly shallow and often ridiculously lame.
Second of all, DT show off way too much. It seems to me when they are writing a new song/album, John Petrucci must sit there wondering where he could fit a guitar solo. DT do a lot better when they stick to some basic themes and softer melodies.
Third of all, they aren't very compositionally talented. For example, "Take The Time." It has good solos, terribly lame lyrics and overall bad vibes for me. I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion, Not to listen to incredibly unoriginal guitar solos and cheesy lyrics.
But thats just my opinion. |
They practically took Prog Metal to a whole other level friend. And They Have influenced THOUSANDS OF BANDS! you look at every prog metal band out there look at their myspace and see if it doesn't say Dream Theater as an influence. When you think of Metal The biggest names that pop into your head are Iron Maiden, Ozzy, Dream Theater, and Metallica these guys were gods.
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hawkcwg
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:26 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 15:13 |
Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:
^Haha, relax bro. Man, I don't need to put emoticons into every post I make to make people aware I'm not being overly serious? The way I worded that post was deliberately done as to make people understand it shouldn't be taken seriously.
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No problem Harry... but you have that theory so as you always ask... justify!
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slickie
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 14 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1
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Posted: April 11 2009 at 08:35 |
Progkidjoel, bro, I'm so sorry for you... Really, you just don't get them...
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
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Posted: April 11 2009 at 09:26 |
progkidjoel wrote:
Well to begin with, I think DT are Over rated. Sure, they are incredibly technically talented, but I feel as a Prog Metal band, they have a long way to come before they deserve any more of my money.
First of all, I find them to be incredibly unexpressive. Some songs are an exception, (Wait for sleep, Surrounded) but overall, I find their lyrics to be incredibly shallow and often ridiculously lame.
Second of all, DT show off way too much. It seems to me when they are writing a new song/album, John Petrucci must sit there wondering where he could fit a guitar solo. DT do a lot better when they stick to some basic themes and softer melodies.
Third of all, they aren't very compositionally talented. For example, "Take The Time." It has good solos, terribly lame lyrics and overall bad vibes for me. I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion, Not to listen to incredibly unoriginal guitar solos and cheesy lyrics.
But thats just my opinion. |
Go listen to the beginning of 6 degrees and then tell me they can't compose well.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: April 11 2009 at 13:59 |
Over-rated? No. I don't feel such a thing exists. More highly rated than contemporary bands? Definitely.
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
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Posted: April 12 2009 at 08:05 |
hawkcwg wrote:
cacho wrote:
No they're not, and I'm no big fan of them, only have 3 of their albums, and love 2 of them, and started the disliking the one left. They're awesome musicians, and write some incredible Metal, which is, duh, Prog Metal... BTW, I completely don't understand this statement of the OP: "I listen to prog to relax and feel some emotion", man, relax? Has it occured to you that Metal is in general, quite the opposite of 'relax'.... dude, if you listen Prog to relax, better stay away of Heavy Prog, and all the Metal sub-genres, and you can also include a lot of other bands, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, many others....
| I can relax to death metal and prog metal its just got to be your gig man, I listen to metal for the musicianship and complexity and it helps me get work done as well, it gives you that extra push. |
I can relax to metal.
I don't find DT at all relaxable to though, I'd much rather chill to some Opeth, Metallica, Black Sabbath or RATM.
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peart_lee_lifeson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2009
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 305
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Posted: April 13 2009 at 19:16 |
It all depends on how you rate them. For me, they are my favorite band of all time and I rate them highly. I have not heard anything else that strikes me the same way as DT's music. Some bands come close, but just don't have the originality and musicianship. Also, I think a lot of fans who don't like their previous couple of albums should wake up and realize how good they are. So, no, they are not overrated, but possibly underrated. Scenes From a Memory is DT's best album by the way.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13351
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Posted: April 14 2009 at 09:57 |
AlanD wrote:
Overrated by some, underrated by others, I suspect.
I can personally live without them, I did buy one of their cds a few years back but quickly tired of it and it went to a better home via a car booty when I needed some cash. |
Amen
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steve j
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 30 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 164
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Posted: April 14 2009 at 13:09 |
I have just checked their ratings - they are clearly not overrated - more than likely underrated.
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