| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
stonebeard 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
|
 Posted: March 22 2009 at 01:47 |
 Jake Kobrin wrote:
Tangerine Dream. I found this band to be very boring. Although, if I were to need to sleep, I'd put that record on in a second. There is MUCH more beautiful yet equally as mellow music.
|
Terribly sorry to inform you, but there is no band more beautiful than Tangerine Dream. You've been mistaken all this time.
Edited by stonebeard - March 22 2009 at 01:47
|
|
|
 |
AlbertMond
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2008
Location: Namibia
Status: Offline
Points: 139
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 07:27 |
rogerthat wrote:
^^^
The second definition in Urbandictionary describes what it normally degenerates into, which I have been talking about for some time in this thread  , simply to diss popular bands because you feel resentful of their success vis-a-vis the success of your favourite bands from usually the same scene. But it need not be THAT bad, point no. 4 and 7 could be said to be more appropriate, what the concept of "overrated" ought to be than what it is in practice. |
That's not what I was doing. Please stop trying to take cheap shots at me when I'm not actually in the argument.
|
Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
|
|
Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 07:36 |
|
|
|
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 07:36 |
AlbertMond wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
^^^
The second definition in Urbandictionary describes what it normally degenerates into, which I have been talking about for some time in this thread , simply to diss popular bands because you feel resentful of their success vis-a-vis the success of your favourite bands from usually the same scene. But it need not be THAT bad, point no. 4 and 7 could be said to be more appropriate, what the concept of "overrated" ought to be than what it is in practice. |
That's not what I was doing. Please stop trying to take cheap shots at me when I'm not actually in the argument. |
I did not take a cheap shot at you and if you read through the thread, I defined the concept of overrated thusly before you posted your list. Hello, I participate in the thread at points where I find something interesting to say and if you feel so hypersensitive about it, kindly ignore my posts.
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 08:20 |
Alberto Muńoz wrote:
overrate
• verb rate more highly than is deserved. |
ahhhh... see... to rate something... you have to look at it in terms of comparison. So a discussion on overrated need not decend into mudslinging about groups you don't like or whatever. I raised the point earlier in the thread...
Is the Lamb overrated as an album... you bet your socks it is. why is it overrated. because it suffers the same 'problem' if you will as another album for example... Tarkus.
Both album have what many (most) consider to having brilliant first halves (Tarkus side 1.. Lamb disk 1) and subpar 2nd halves ..(Tarkus 2nd side... Lamb 2nd disk). Check the various threads throughout the years here on that album.. even people who love the album generally say that. Yet check the ratings... because Genesis is a popular group... it is given a highter rating.. it is forgiven so to speak. Yet Tarkus is routinely trashed for not have a Tarkus suite pt 2 on side 2. so is the Lamb overrated... hmmm.. is it judged on the same standards as other albums (other groups) doesn't appear that way... hense... they can be said to be overrated hahha. Has nothing to do with liking an album or a group.. it's paying attention to who says what about what.. and how they rate it.
Edited by micky - March 22 2009 at 08:25
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 09:31 |
micky wrote:
Alberto Muńoz wrote:
overrate
• verb rate more highly than is deserved. |
ahhhh... see... to rate something... you have to look at it in terms of comparison. So a discussion on overrated need not decend into mudslinging about groups you don't like or whatever. I raised the point earlier in the thread...
Is the Lamb overrated as an album... you bet your socks it is. why is it overrated. because it suffers the same 'problem' if you will as another album for example... Tarkus.
Both album have what many (most) consider to having brilliant first halves (Tarkus side 1.. Lamb disk 1) and subpar 2nd halves ..(Tarkus 2nd side... Lamb 2nd disk). Check the various threads throughout the years here on that album.. even people who love the album generally say that. Yet check the ratings... because Genesis is a popular group... it is given a highter rating.. it is forgiven so to speak. Yet Tarkus is routinely trashed for not have a Tarkus suite pt 2 on side 2. so is the Lamb overrated... hmmm.. is it judged on the same standards as other albums (other groups) doesn't appear that way... hense... they can be said to be overrated hahha. Has nothing to do with liking an album or a group.. it's paying attention to who says what about what.. and how they rate it.
|
Heh, disc 2 is the highlight for me and a lot of others. I've yet to meet anyone who calls side 2 of Tarkus the highlight of it.
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 10:12 |
hahahha.. and you won't on this forum Rob... this is ground central for ELP under-appreciation and conversely Genesis over-appreciation. Side 2 is different from side 1 (like the Lamb)... but damn great in it's own way. ELP was not a one trick pony... for all the prententious tages thrown at it... it shows a distinct lack of it...a sense of humour and gets trashed. Face it... ELP could have done Tarkus pt2 and people would have trashed it  My point is again... different standards for different groups... the definition of overrated.. and underrated.
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:10 |
Tarkus side B is very good , showing the diversity of the band and it has powerful rockers like "Time and a place" and "Bitches crystal". The problem is Tarkus is soo good that almost any material you put in side B will be considered weak in comparaison.
And about all the pages with Genesis being overrated. I must say that although it's one of my favourite bands I have to agree. If it's from Genesis and prog , any album will have 4> stars added to it. I know that they have 7 or 8 very good albums in a row.
But what about KC??? From "In the Court" to "Power to Believe" they have 13 studio albums of at least good material , and they music was much more risky and challenging than Genesis. That's why although ELP is my favourite prog band I consider KC to be the best band of all times. Also The Soft Machine could hold that place , one of the pioneer bands going from jazz tingled psychedelia to almost free jazz and jazz fusion.
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:36 |
rogerthat wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Rogerthat, I believe calling ANY BAND overrated, is a disrespect for their fans, just think what overrated means:
1.- Many people think they are great
2.- Every piece of Prog literature considers them essential
3.- I don't think they are great
4.- All that people's rating is wrong
5.- All the critic is wrong.
6.- My rating is more valuable than the one of that people
7.- So i say they are overrated
As simple as that, this is the reason why I don't use the word overrated.
Overrated threads are a provocation an should be avoided.
Iván |
I agree with points 1-3, but not really with points 4-7, I don't see how considering a band overrated calls into question the judgment of other fans and critics and experts. . |
Pklease Roger that's exactly the meaning of overrated.THE PEOPLE, FANS AND CRITICS RATE THIS BAND TOO HIGH.
It's essentially placing the judgement of all this people into question, because according to YOU, all this people is wrong rating them so high
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 22 2009 at 11:38
|
|
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:54 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pklease Roger that's exactly the meaning of overrated.THE PEOPLE, FANS AND CRITICS RATE THIS BAND TOO HIGH.
It's essentially placing the judgement of all this people into question, because according to YOU, all this people is wrong rating them so high
Iván |
Well, high/low in whose estimation? Mine, in a figurative sense, is it not? That's all there is to it: it's not right/wrong, just agreement/disagreement. I disagree with the assessment of the critics about a band and would give it a lower rating than they do, so I consider them overrated. Which neither makes them right nor wrong, but if I did not form either a like or unlike opinion, I would be unable to articulate in any coherent way about what effect a particular piece of music has on me.
|
|
crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:55 |
AlbertMond wrote:
1. Nirvana |
Thank you. Agreed.
|
|
AlbertMond
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2008
Location: Namibia
Status: Offline
Points: 139
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:55 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pklease Roger that's exactly the meaning of overrated.THE PEOPLE, FANS AND CRITICS RATE THIS BAND TOO HIGH.
It's essentially placing the judgement of all this people into question, because according to YOU, all this people is wrong rating them so high
Iván |
He never said 'everybody else is wrong'. By your logic, every opinion is an absolute, and nobody can possibly respect a different one.
Edited by AlbertMond - March 22 2009 at 11:57
|
Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:59 |
AlbertMond wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pklease Roger that's exactly the meaning of overrated.THE PEOPLE, FANS AND CRITICS RATE THIS BAND TOO HIGH.
It's essentially placing the judgement of all this people into question, because according to YOU, all this people is wrong rating them so high
Iván |
He never said 'everybody else is wrong'. By your logic, every opinion is an absolute, and nobody can possibly respect a different one. |
Thank you. That is exactly it, there are no right or wrong opinions, only different opinions.
|
|
Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 37240
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 12:06 |
|
Some opinions are better informed and more valid than others.
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 12:57 |
AlbertMond wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pklease Roger that's exactly the meaning of overrated.THE PEOPLE, FANS AND CRITICS RATE THIS BAND TOO HIGH.
It's essentially placing the judgement of all this people into question, because according to YOU, all this people is wrong rating them so high
Iván |
He never said 'everybody else is wrong'. By your logic, every opinion is an absolute, and nobody can possibly respect a different one. |
Have you studied logics at school?
This is like saying A is bigger than be then B is smaller than A, a perfect tautology.
Doesn't need to say everybody else is wrong, it's an obvious inference:
- People rate high ELP )For example)
- Critics rate high ELP
- Experts rate high ELP
- ELP is highly rated by the people, critics and experts
- I say ELP is overrated
- It's obvious that I'm saying everybody else is wrong because I affirm it's overrated.
Iván
|
|
|
|
crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 13:02 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
ELP is highly rated by the people, critics and experts
Iván |
Talk about unreal stuff 
|
|
Keltic
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 69
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 13:06 |
Without wanting to denigrate any chosen individual, or indeed inviduals - I mean. far be from good old me to do so - but there sure has been one helluva lot of baloney spouted on this thread.
My trusty old baloney - o- meter is practically off the scale with the nonsense that is gushing forth. 
|
|
Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 37240
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 13:08 |
|
It's more like you think those people who rate ELP highly are wrong (or their reasons for rating it highly are lacking validity) in rating it as highly as they do.
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 13:08 |
crimson87 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
ELP is highly rated by the people, critics and experts
Iván |
Talk about unreal stuff |
I love Ivan... but not sure where he got that from... 
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
|
Posted: March 22 2009 at 13:20 |
micky wrote:
crimson87 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
ELP is highly rated by the people, critics and experts
Iván |
Talk about unreal stuff |
I love Ivan... but not sure where he got that from...
|
From professional critics, I dunno. But most reasonable fans of music with a lot of knowledge of different genres find a lot to like about ELP. Even I, however, don't like them a lot. It takes a special kind of person to wholly love ELP.
|
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Overrated Bands (Opininonated!)
