Cem Karaca (Turkish progressive master)

Dean wrote: ^ Even more hilarious is Google translated "Türkçe" as "English" (even I could see the error in that and corrected it).

I can see why. I'm a professional translator, and when we're working with charts, (i.e. one column featuring English items, the other target language, which is Turkish in my case ) and on translation software such as Trados Translator's Workbench, "English" is usually translated as "Türkçe"

One thing which made me laugh is that google translated one surname (danışman) as "advisory" .. .Of course, how would it have guessed

btw, our new friend PM'ed me and told me his English wasn't adequate enough, so I'll handle that for him. (as he already thanked me above ). Give me some time

^ Even more hilarious is Google translated "Türkçe" as "English" (even I could see the error in that and corrected it).

DADALLAR - translated by Google wrote: I am writing for the Turkish to a level little darling "" Dervişan "". NEVER mentioned periods Murat POWDER Kurtalan Express' did not play it. He Cem Karaca 't see on the stage and the effects of music for many musicians to be decided, and one day, Cem Karaca' to play with full force to work with the end of the Oğuz DURUKAN 'instead of pure Dervişan participated. 2023 LP 'sinin has played in the Bass Guitars from Mithat ADVISORY. Older dönemde recorded songs such as The Light in the Püf Deee probably have been playing Bass Gitarl UGUR Özkan.   FYI

Bilek wrote: ^ Please don't insult my enthusiastic friend, who wants the best examples of Turkish Prog music to be added, unless you listened to at least half of what is suggested in this thread... In case you did, then you're welcome to voice your opinion...

Please Bilek, giving your opinion is not insulting, nobody here gives an opinion without listening before, this is not Prog, it may be the best of Turkish music, but Prog Archives is not the best of each country Archives, this is for Prog, and this music is not Prog.

Bilek wrote: sh*tty bands from all over the world are in this site, just because they know to play more than 3 chords, and with a bit of virtuosity; not to mention all melodic metal bands, which are labeled "progressive" as soon as they include a mediocre keyboard player in their line up... and Turkey is almost not represented, with the exception of 2 latter day acts...

This is offensive Bilek, if you want the music you like to be respected, don't call sh*tty what others like, each team takes their time to add a band, sometimes they miss it, and you know I'm the first one to say it, but a mistake (If here is), doesn't justify another one.

Now, you don't like Prog Metal, me neither, but denying there are Prog Metal bands is placing a blindfold in the eyes.

If Turkey is not represented (Neither Bolivia or Uruguay among probably 100 countries), it's not our fault, probably they didn't made enough Prog music, and that's the problem, some people in Turkey see this as Prog because they devoted their life to this.

Bilek wrote: What else can we do than being "pushy"? [QUOTE] Pushy is one thing, but 4 pages of suggestion is way too much, didn't wanted to say it, but at least I feel like trying to be forced to accept what he says as the universal truth. Bilek wrote: And many progsters from all around the world doesn't have your opinion; they're collecting stuff from Cem Karaca, as well as the other 3 names I mentioned, and promoting them here & there... So, I suggest you to listen once again without prejudice. It may be as a collection, if Proggers around the world would be collecting Cem Karaca, and it was Prog,  the few sites that mention him wouldn't be clear enough to say he is CLOSE to Prog. And no prejudice, I love Ethnic music. [QUOTE=Bilek]His magnum opus is the "Safinaz" LP, with the side-long concept title suite (a sort of "rock opera" if you will). Dervisan posted it just last month,

If Safinaz is his magnum opus, then we're in problems:

1.- The title song is long, that's the best I can say, even when starts promising with a nice flute opening "a la " Jethro Tull, it turns boring, predictable, funky in some moments, no changes or complex structures, just plain Folk. Follows boring and predictable for many years

Around the eight minute has it's first change and it's not promising, first passage that reminds of Bossa Nova and then an absolutely Plain Ethnic Turkish section.

The third change is about the 13th minute, it's some sort of ballad with nice keyboards, but plain and simple as can be.

The song closes in some sort of Funk Pop.

Yes it's long and has changes, but in 18 minutes three changes is not too much, no complex structures, the best part is the folk section, but it's just mainstream folk.

2.- Karam is some sort of Funk mixed with Eurovision Festival material, reminds me of those artists who filled the James Last program back in the late 70's.

3.- Seyh Bedrettin Destani: Has a weird introduction of narration and flute, but weird is not necessarily Prog, then it turns again in Eurovision material, with loud winds, tries to be pompous, but only achieves to be loud.

After 7 minutes of lost time in narrations that could never be qualified as Prog, again returns to the pompous section good for a Festival, also a nice soft flute, but it's a folksy ballad. No important changes until the end when does a dramatic narration that isn't Prog either.

People love the music they heard in their childhood, that's why many try to add Boston or The eagles, but this doesn't make them Prog as Cem Karaca is not remotely Prog, maybe Prog Related.

Not trying to offend, but that's my opinion.

Iván

Cheers, I'll listen to that over the weekend and then get back to you, OK?

Edited by npjnpj - March 13 2009 at 07:29

Look, this is giving me a very hard time.

^ Please don't insult my enthusiastic friend, who wants the best examples of Turkish prog music to be added, unless you listened to at least half of what is suggested in this thread... In case you did, then you're welcome to voice your opinion...

sh*tty bands from all over the world are in this site, just because they know to play more than 3 chords, and with a bit of virtuosity; not to mention all melodic metal bands, which are labeled "progressive" as soon as they include a mediocre keyboard player in their line up... and Turkey is almost not represented, with the exception of 2 latter day acts... They may be good, but Baris Manco, Cem Karaca, Erkin Koray and Mogollar are who started that thing in Turkey; and they are not here...

What else can we do than being "pushy"?


Edit: I posted just at the same time with your second post, so I didn't know you already listened something... While I respect your opinion, I need to remind that "progressiveness" is not about a music's quality, or likeability, but about some certain standards which are listed in the definition of prog, posted in various places in this site (also in every relevant subgenre's main discography page). That means, music can be awful, but still prog.
And many progsters from all around the world doesn't have your opinion; they're collecting stuff from Cem Karaca, as well as the other 3 names I mentioned, and promoting them here & there... So, I suggest you to listen once again without prejudice.
It may be that the sound quality in the samples that are posted are vary bad, which can actually affect the quality of the music that is "heard"... in that case, I'll always offer better quality samples.

sidenote: I'm working on a track-by-track list of Cem Karaca's styles. When ready, I'll be able to see what percentage of "prog" his music includes (IMHO of course) and maybe share it here




P.S. I'm taking the blame for Erkin Koray's absence, because he's already approved, but I was supposed to write a bio for inclusion . Yet, the other three names are indeed who started "prog" in Turkey and definitely deserve honourable mention...


Edited by Bilek - March 13 2009 at 04:39

i will wait more????????

You have been listening to this most of your life - we have only had 16 days - give us a little more time