Genesis the most influential prog band?

micky wrote: gotta love Progger....

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 28 2009 at 17:31

micky wrote: oh yeah.... back to real fun... Ivan.. .got a question for you and want to pick your brains... don't make anything suspicious out of it. This came for discussion in another thread.   ELP-  classically influenced EVERYONE would agree... but what makes them symphonic IYO.

Emerson's piano, imo. His piano parts are really quite viciously classical-sounding most of the time.

Not to mention, Toccata, Abaddon's Bolero, The Three Fates, Piano Concerto no. 1, Two Part Invention In D Minor, Pictures At A Friggin' Exhibition. Sure, it's not the same type of symphonic as Genesis, Yes, etc (both very different, but less so than themselves and ELP)... but really, I think they'd fit heavy less than they do symphonic.

Still, round bands, square (and not particularly clear) categories, or is it the other way round?

1. Supper's ready
2. Can Utility
3. Musical Box
4. Giant Hogweed
5. Watcher of the Skies
6. The Knife
7. Fountain of Salmacis
8. Cionema Show
9. Firth of Fifth
10. Get 'Em Out by Friday

Are not bombastic tracks?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Respect your opinion Dim, but strongly disagree.   Dim wrote: I'm a little late on this, but I think it's a valid argument to say that Yes or pink Floyd have bigger influences on Prog rock than Genesis do.   I honestly don't believe anybody can know which of this 3 or 4 big bands is more influential, but still I believe the Neo Prog influence is much wider than all the rest.   Dim wrote: Genesis was more theatrical, and more or less "poetic". Yes were more bombastic,   I'm not sure of that, Genesis had far better lyrics than Yes, which absolutely don't make sense, not very poetic, more narrative.   But please tell me: Supper's ready Can Utility Musical Box Giant Hogweed Watcher of the Skies The Knife Fountain of Salmacis Cionema Show Firth of Fifth Get 'Em Out by Friday Are not bombastic tracks? I Never said Yes had good lyrics, and Yes Genesis have much better lyrics, but when I look at modern prog I see more bands writing music (especially in prog metal)  writing lyrics in a very Yes like vain, instead of Peter Gabriels music, except Neo. Also you are right those are bombastic tracks, except the ones I bolded, but once again I dont see many bands playing that kind of music, especially when compared to those who playing Yes influenced music.   Dim wrote: and were big on showing personal skill which is definately the biggest trademark in progressive music, maybe behind long song lengths (which Yes arguably put into the progressive mainstream).   Since when?   I believe complex structures, non commercial music, dramatical changes, etc are much more important in Prog than showing the rest of the world how skilled you are.   I talked about the progressive mainstream, not how "the world see's them", and Yes just because Yes was a little more popular than Genesis in that era does not discredit them from massively influencing the progressive rock world.   Probably Genesis had not emphasis in soloing, but nobody can doubt guys like Tony Banks, Steve Hackett and phil Collins are incredibly skilled in theior instruments as Peter in the vocals and even Mike.   I didnt doubt that, but since when has progressive music ever been about subtltey? And the only band that were praised, are considered much more influential in being subtle are.............. PINK FLOYD!   The difference is that they were not show offs, they did what the band required. They had normal egos, and being egomaniac is not a trademark of Prog.   Bahaha if prog rock is known for anything, it's known for it's pompous display or technical skill, no one will deny that. Therefore, because Genesis were not show offs, they are not as influential.     Dim wrote: Pink Floyd kind of brought up the philosophy of "less is more",   Youa are contradicting yourself. Which  the valid philosophy, showing your skills or less is more?   I am not contradicting myself, I tapped on opposite sides of the musical spectrum. Prog is mostly know for technical skill, which I covered with Yes, but when you look at pshych and space rock, Pink Floyd rules divine with their less is more theory.     Dim wrote: and if you consider post rock a sub-genre of prog, than they've influenced the entire genre including shoegaze, ambience, and some modern rock.   Oh please, post Rock is not popular even among Progheads. BTW: We are talking about influence in Prog, Shoegaze, ambience and Modern Rock are not Prog   Bahaha [2] Just because post rock is not popular on this site doesnt mean it's not big. Actually, you can argue that post rock is one of the most popular forms of underground music, and certainly more popular than traditional prog rock in this day and age! Bands like Mogwai, Explosions in the sky, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, (rescently) Russian Circles, and especially Sigur ros (which their newest album was an international hit) are all considerably more popualar than the biggest names in prog rock today such as spocks beard, the Flower Kings, and Neal Morse. The only exception I can thin of is porcupine tree, which guess what? Used to be considered a pink floyd clone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      Dim wrote: Genesis was big with the Neo proggers, but I don't really see their infuence in modern prog whether it be retro or not.   I work in Symphonic and checked each and every band, at least 50% of Symphonic bands claim to have Genesis influence, most Italian Symphonic bands are influenced by Genesis, also South American Symphonic, even USA bands.   But still I can't assure Genesis is the most influential band.   Cheers   Iván

I'd have to say Yes (the band, not the noun) just because i seriously believe NO-ONE can do what they do. Still touring Forty years on, and still not in the rock n roll hall of fame... fascist stones fans...

Genesis was very influential for many bands, so were Yes and King Crimson, but I think the most influential band was the one than influenced Yes AND Genesis... Pink Floyd.

I prefer Yes over Pink Floyd but I still think that Syd Barret's deep an ''strange'' lyrics and music ( example: the Gnome, in The piper at the gates of Dawn) were what influenced so many bands to be what they were, the use of heavy keyboards and bass driven songs is something that no band used before Pink Floyd.

Well, I think that it may have been Zappa. I mean think about it. Paul McCartney has been quoted in saying that "Freak Out!" is what inspired him to start writing Sgt. Pepper. Well, Sgt. Pepper is considered to be probably the biggest influence on Prog, and a lot of people say that it was really where it started. Then again though, there were bands like Procol Harum, The Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, and King Crimson who all started only a little bit after that. So, if you think about it, it seems almost as if it was Zappa who kinda started it, but the other bands were much bigger at the time than he was, so I suppose you could say that Zappa started it, but the other guys popularized it. (Of course, this is just my theory, it's really almost impossible to actually figure out THE single most influential Prog band ever... )

Edited by Stanley the Bugman - March 07 2009 at 11:06

I agree with progger, Genesis is grotesquely overrated on this site, sure they influnced Neo prog, so what? neo prog sucks, so thats not much to be proud about.

Edited by Zargus - March 08 2009 at 09:22

On the question as to whether Mr Derek Dick ( aka Fish ) is a Genesis clone  ( though I would use the word imitator in this case ) or not, the answer has to be an emphatic yes.

I can agree about Genesis not really pulling crowds the way ELP or the Floyd did, because getting a big audience is one of the oldest ways to influence others - budding musicians in the audience, peer bands who see the success you are enjoying and want to emulate you and so on and so forth.  I also would give a little more credit to the musicianship argument, FACT: flashy w***ery is what draws attention to itself, ever seen how the audience in a rock show gets all excited when yet another boring drum solo starts?  Now I don't say that Genesis should have incorporated lot of extended instrumental passages that did not blend seamlessly into each other and instead allowed the musicians to solo to eternity, but the fact is a tight, cohesive approach takes a more discerning audience to appreciate and that must have, to some extent, limited Genesis's appeal.