In the Defense of Criticism Towards Metal

Trademark wrote: The quote from Corinthians and the use of the words juvenille & adolescent were meant to indicate (perhaps not clearly enough) a fairly well documented stage of physical and intellectual development; one which ends when the processes of body and brain development are complete (around age 20). The actual point I was trying to make is how odd it seems to me that people not only continue to choose music and other forms of entertainment (video games anyone?) that are designed for and marketed to an adolescent mentality.  Make no mistake about it, the marketing research department at the Roadrunner label has more people on it than all the band rosters put together.  This music is "marketing metal", and the target audience is High School boys and it shows.  I enjoyed it and listened to it in my season, but I don't understand adults treating it as if it were something other than what it is in a seemingly desperate attempt to "maintain a youthful spirit". The dogged determination to hold onto this part of life both confuses and amuses me.  Its at a pandemic level here in the states.  The idea that you can only be happy if you're young and totally stupid (which we all are at that age) is not so much the problem as the idea that you should never grow out of it.  Metal is a symptom (a hacking, growling cough), not the disease.

"and I don't think that somehow, at a certain age you're required to not be rebellious/adventurous anymore and instead become docile and tame - or even arrogant and narrow-minded."

Tony R wrote: Hands up anyone who doesnt know Trademark's opinion of metal. Apparently David Attenborough came across a lost Amazonian tribe last week who were quite perturbed about his stance. Now where's that "flogging a dead horse" emoticon when we need it?

hahahhaha.. oOOOOHH  OOOOHH OOOOHHH

"AO-flippin'-R? No thanks; Livin' In The Past?"

Trademark wrote: You may not have meant it this way, but I have to ask,  how does listening to metal demonstrate rebelliousness or adventurousness.  I would have to say it does the exact opposite.  It's like the Hot Topic crowd all running around in the exact same get ups saying "Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am." It would be far more darting and adventurous to find exciting music made by and for adults.

Trademark wrote: "Man u never give up, i've never seen such a stuborn one ." Am I less stubborn than you?  What makes you right and me stubborn?  Perhaps I'm right and you're stubborn if by stubborn you imply that one of us is wrong. "I'AM  ALL  EARS tell me"  Not a chance.  Typical youthful rebellion, trying to get someone else to do your work for you while you sit back and listen to metal.

"Rock Oriented towards Adults"

Edited by Trademark - March 02 2009 at 17:53

Trademark wrote: The actual point I was trying to make is how odd it seems to me that people not only continue to choose music and other forms of entertainment (video games anyone?) that are designed for and marketed to an adolescent mentality.  Make no mistake about it, the marketing research department at the Roadrunner label has more people on it than all the band rosters put together.  This music is "marketing metal", and the target audience is High School boys and it shows.  I enjoyed it and listened to it in my season, but I don't understand adults treating it as if it were something other than what it is in a seemingly desperate attempt to "maintain a youthful spirit".

Oh well, better kill off all instances of artists like The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Dire Straits, Michael Jackson, Al DiMeola, Elvis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Chick Corea, Miles Davis, Bruce Springsteen ++++ from our record collections then. All of these artists marketed towards a young, adolescent audience in their heyday, all of them signed to cater for a young adolescent audience.

In fact, disregarding country, jazz, classical and gospel music I've only seen one brand of artists planned and heavily marketed towards a mature audience; heavily promoted towards the age group 40+ in my part of the woods for all time I can remember (and bought by the target group as well). So if marketing target group is a measure of mental adulthood; you should also subscribe to THIS as the ultimate in music for the mature mind.

As far as musicianship goes, you may actually be correct. Many of the musicians in acts like that use/used to spend their spare time playing in rock and jazz outfits - in many cases of the experimental variety.

Don't know if that is the case for the band I linked to there though.

Trademark wrote: "and I don't think that somehow, at a certain age you're required to not be rebellious/adventurous anymore and instead become docile and tame - or even arrogant and narrow-minded." You may not have meant it this way, but I have to ask,  how does listening to metal demonstrate rebelliousness or adventurousness.  I would have to say it does the exact opposite.  It's like the Hot Topic crowd all running around in the exact same get ups saying "Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am.  Look how non- conformist I am." It would be far more darting and adventurous to find exciting music made by and for adults.

When I'm looking for new music I *never* think about how conformist it is. I also never pick music with the intention of showing it to others, or bragging with how rebellious or adventurous it is. "Look how non-conformist I am" ... I never ever thought that, let alone said it to anyone.

To answer your question: I think that any piece of music which was made with the intention of creating a work of art rather than simply trying to please a target audience can be called adventurous ... maybe I chose the wrong word though, and we should simply call it "interesting". In the end most recordings that I like are a little bit of both ... I think that it's almost impossible for artists to ignore their fans, as much as they're trying to be independent.

And about that last statement of yours: Metal is a mature genre. It was started more than 30 years ago. A lot of the metal I enjoy listening to was made by people who are older than me, and when they made the music the typical adolescent was not listening to metal but rap/hip-hop instead. You can call me childish, immature or "refusing to grow up" as long as you want, but I know that those attributes aren't what my collection of albums is about. I'm simply looking for high quality music regardless of style, and that - like it or not - has to include metal ... especially today.