Phil Collins - Is He Any Good?

Greenback read what I said. After Wind and Wuthering everything else is instantly forgettable you don't need to preach to me about the halcyon days. I was hooked from 71 onwards until the quality started diminishing and it did big style with the arrival of 'And then there were three' and the departure of Steve Hackett.

Easy Livin wrote: I won't even try to defend the way Genesis degenerated from a top prog outfit into a hit single chasing pop group, however... For me they never completely gave up on their prog roots. You don't have to look too hard to find what I consider to be excellent prog tracks on many of their albums after "Wind and Wuthering". "And then there were three" I enjoy greatly, even though the tracks were generally shorter and more straight forward. "Burning rope" is a very under rated track. "Duke" had the excellent "Duke's travels".  "Ababcab", OK you got me with that one! "Genesis" had "Home by the sea", surely that was worthwhile! "Invisible touch", OK got me again, "Domino" was passible, but I'm "Clutching at straws". "We can't dance" had "Fading lights" which featured a superb long instrumental break, plus "Dreaming while you sleep" and "Driving the last spike". "Calling all stations", (post Collins) was a missed opportunity, but was generally more rock than pop. Even live, "The way we walk 2" showed they could and did still do prog right to the end.

I would definately agree with regard to 'and then there were three' I think this an underated album. There are moments of nonesense like'Ballad of big' and 'Scenes from a nights dream' but I couldn't agree more about 'Burning rope' which is one of my all time top Genesis songs. Also, 'Down and Out' has so many Genesis trademarks, the irregular time signature the spiralling keyboard solo, and that classic sense of drama that they were always so able to conjure up.

I everything up to and including 'Duke' even on 'Abacab' I like 'Me & Sarah Jane' and 'Dodo' On 'Genesis' I like 'Mama' and 'Home by the sea'

After that. Forget it. The live DVD of their Wembley shows on the 'Invisible touch' tour doesn't include the few old songs I know they did at that concert 'In the Cage' 'Unquiet slumbers/In that Quiet Earth' That is confirmation that they have disowned their past, and I believe PC was in the driving seat of the selling out process, which is ironic because its not his band. As we know he was their third drummer (at least) I conceded with Garion , on this thread that the others were all in on the process of change, but Collins has carefully and slowly put his foot down since the mid 70's and turned them all into popsters and fake soul merchants. Less, Banks, Collins, Rutherford and more like 'Stock, Aitkin & Waterman' (albeit with a great deal of musical talent )

However, and it may not sound like it, I will always respect PC for his talents as a drummer - he inspired me alot when I was learning - and his contribution to Genesis between 1971 and 1980 which was excellent.

As you like the drivel that followed then good for you. I did turn the page it was in the book of prog that didn't contain anything from the Genesis that you obviously like.

As far as drumming is concerned....he's awesome! He also brought Genesis more money than they ever made before he started singing..but...his pop music sucks a big one!

Havoc:

I think he wanted to go full time, all out cheese. Even modern Genesis required some extended play and thoughtfullness compared to his own drivel.

Havoc wrote: I actually love his drumming , and he can sing. It actually helped that his voice is very similar to Gabriel's (only a little more mm.... childish or gay I don't know..)

A little more gay....eh?