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claugroi 
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 Topic: Progressive Beatles !
Posted: January 30 2009 at 17:56 |
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Everybody knows that The Beatles were VERY important for music in general, but especially for the creation of what was called Progressive Rock. Along with King Crimson, The Moody Blues and others, these guys were the base of progressive music.
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Symphonic Prog Master
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Atavachron
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Posted: January 30 2009 at 22:59 |
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Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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tszirmay
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 02:06 |
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A Day in the Life is proggy Beatles at its best
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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someone_else
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 04:02 |
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A nice bunch of prog or proggish songs! I vote for 'Happiness Is a Warm Gun' because of its changes in time signature (listen for instance to the 'Mother Superior jump the gun'-section). But 'Tomorrow Never Knows', 'A Day in the Life' and 'Revolution 9' come close behind.
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chopper
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 04:25 |
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Toss up between TNK and ADITL, I voted for TNK as the earlier track. It could have been Happiness as that's probably their most complicated song in terms of time sigs and chord changes.
Sorry, I don't see anything particularly progressive about "Dear Prudence".
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claugroi
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 08:15 |
 chopper wrote:
Sorry, I don't see anything particularly progressive about "Dear Prudence".
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Yeah, some people don't see the Progressive atmosphere, but I garantee that Dear Prudence is VERY progressive, mainly the lyrics, the guitar and the drums.
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The Quiet One
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 11:30 |
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Side B of Abbey Road, the whole "epic" which is made.
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J-Man
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 11:38 |
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Either A Day in The Life or I Want You from the list, but I normally would say the epic Abbey Road medley.
I don't know who voted Revolution 9. Sure it's experimental, but it's Avant Garde, not really prog.
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claugroi
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 11:53 |
progrocker2244 wrote:
Either A Day in The Life or I Want You from the list, but I normally would say the epic Abbey Road medley.
I don't know who voted Revolution 9. Sure it's experimental, but it's Avant Garde, not really prog.
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Yes, that's mostly a experimental song, tending for Avant-garde or Musiquè Modern, but I put anyway...
And I can't see much of progressive music on Abbey Road's medley.... 
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The Quiet One
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 11:56 |
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^ Abbey Road Side B is EPIC!! It's a long song, just divided in songs rather in parts. Totally Freaking Proto-Prog!
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claugroi
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 12:01 |
cacho wrote:
^ Abbey Road Side B is EPIC!! It's a long song, just divided in songs rather in parts. Totally Freaking Proto-Prog!
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Yes, an epic it really is, surely. And I am suspect to say this, because I'm a beatlemaniac. But I don't consider to be a progressive song, even a proto-progressive song. For me it's just a great Rock Epic... well, this is a question of opinion... 
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chopper
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 15:42 |
claugroi wrote:
chopper wrote:
Sorry, I don't see anything particularly progressive about "Dear Prudence".
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Yeah, some people don't see the Progressive atmosphere, but I garantee that Dear Prudence is VERY progressive, mainly the lyrics, the guitar and the drums. |
"Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play" No sorry, I don't see it. What's progressive about the drums? McCartney played them, they seem fairly basic to me.
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claugroi
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Posted: January 31 2009 at 17:33 |
chopper wrote:
claugroi wrote:
chopper wrote:
Sorry, I don't see anything particularly progressive about "Dear Prudence".
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Yeah, some people don't see the Progressive atmosphere, but I garantee that Dear Prudence is VERY progressive, mainly the lyrics, the guitar and the drums. |
"Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play"
No sorry, I don't see it. What's progressive about the drums? McCartney played them, they seem fairly basic to me.
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No no, this song has a completly progressive atmosphere. The guitar riffs and the solo are very progressive, the lyrics and the bass line are very mystic (it's a whole mystic song, in fact). If you listen from 1:40 to 2:05 you will see what i'm talking about, but the most progressive part is the end: from 2:49 to 3:56. The drums are COMPLETLY progressive, mainly because it doesn't fits in the rhythm and is very alternated, reminds me the drums of 'In The Court of the Crimson King'. The guitar riff 'grows', becoming higher and higher, and at 3:04, a piano starts doing a crazy melody: pure progressive rock !! Anyway, listen to the whole song to see what I'm talking about.
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Chelsea
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Posted: February 01 2009 at 08:48 |
Atavachron wrote:
Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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I think Harrison broke some major ground in this aspect. Remember Harrison played the sitar listen to his solo on "Love You To" really groundbreaking stuff for a rock band in 1966. He also played the tamboura, swarmandal, and recording the guitar backwards. Jeff Beck and Roger McGuinn were not playing Indian instruments and George was the first rock guitarist to play these instruments.
A Day in the Life" broke new ground by using an avant style type of orchestration and combining 2 completely different tunes in different keys,sung by 2 different singers and played at 2 different tempos...what an amazing step toward a larger scope of composition. "A Day in the Life" and "Within You Without You" are in my mind with no doubt are Progressive Rock status.
Songs not mentioned are "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Because", and "Within You Without You". I hear a lot of classical influences whether the Beatles were self taught does not matter. They covered a vast amout of genres when they were a bar band and you learn by playing. That is why you hear a lot of odd chords and styles in the Beatles music.
Edited by Chelsea - February 01 2009 at 08:50
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JLocke
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Posted: February 01 2009 at 09:04 |
Atavachron wrote:
Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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Couldn't dissagree with you more. Prog is about originallity first and foremost; technical musicianship is merely icing on the prog cake. Look and Pink Floyd.
I voted for "A Day in the Life". True prog masterpiece.
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JLocke
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Posted: February 01 2009 at 09:05 |
Chelsea wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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I think Harrison broke some major ground in this aspect. Remember Harrison played the sitar listen to his solo on "Love You To" really groundbreaking stuff for a rock band in 1966. He also played the tamboura, swarmandal, and recording the guitar backwards. Jeff Beck and Roger McGuinn were not playing Indian instruments and George was the first rock guitarist to play these instruments.
A Day in the Life" broke new ground by using an avant style type of orchestration and combining 2 completely different tunes in different keys,sung by 2 different singers and played at 2 different tempos...what an amazing step toward a larger scope of composition. "A Day in the Life" and "Within You Without You" are in my mind with no doubt are Progressive Rock status.
Songs not mentioned are "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Because", and "Within You Without You". I hear a lot of classical influences whether the Beatles were self taught does not matter. They covered a vast amout of genres when they were a bar band and you learn by playing. That is why you hear a lot of odd chords and styles in the Beatles music. |
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 01 2009 at 16:56 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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Couldn't dissagree with you more. Prog is about originallity first and foremost; technical musicianship is merely icing on the prog cake. Look and Pink Floyd.
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Icing? I think it was a bit more than that..Prog was absolutely about musicianship (among other things) and to diminish the importance of it is a denial of what separated the prog [and fusion] artists from the other popular performers. Further, it was someone like Emerson or Fripp's firm, academic grasp of western musics and music history that allowed them to play the visions they had in their head. This had little to do with the Beatles or any other band. The timing was right, prog was not to be denied, and dare I say would have occurred even without the existence of the Fab Four.
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claugroi2
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Posted: February 01 2009 at 18:00 |
Atavachron wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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Couldn't dissagree with you more. Prog is about originallity first and foremost; technical musicianship is merely icing on the prog cake. Look and Pink Floyd.
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Icing? I think it was a bit more than that..Prog was absolutely about musicianship (among other things) and to diminish the importance of it is a denial of what separated the prog [and fusion] artists from the other popular performers. Further, it was someone like Emerson or Fripp's firm, academic grasp of western musics and music history that allowed them to play the visions they had in their head. This had little to do with the Beatles or any other band. The timing was right, prog was not to be denied, and dare I say would have occurred even without the existence of the Fab Four.
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Of course that Progressive Rock would have occurred even without the existence of the beatles, but I wanted to say that WITH The Beatles, Progressive Rock started at the right time and had a stronger influence. I don't want to say that 'The beatles CREATED Progressive Rock', cause Prog is something made by ALL bands, and a lot of genres mixed. The Beatles were the base of progressive rock, along with KING CRIMSON, MOODY BLUES, VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR, YES, GENESIS, PINK FLOYD, and many others, they didn't do it alone.
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JLocke
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Posted: February 01 2009 at 22:25 |
Atavachron wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Mr. Kite is my favorite from the list and predates 'I Want You', so it gets my vote.
however I wouldn't say the Beatles were the base of progressive music.. they certainly provided a much wider rock/pop palette and undoubtedly influenced countless artists, but the well-trained and versed Prog pioneers as Fripp, Emerson, Banks were a far cry from the Beatles who were a self-taught, hard-rockin club band turned pop sensation. Their influence on Prog rock is limited to very earliest incarnations as Giles,Giles&Fripp, the Nice, early Yes and Genesis.. but by about 1970 these bands were saying goodbye in a big way to what the Beatles had so brilliantly done and hello to a whole new world of possibilities only achieved by technically superior players with far larger ambitions.
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Couldn't dissagree with you more. Prog is about originallity first and foremost; technical musicianship is merely icing on the prog cake. Look and Pink Floyd.
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Icing? I think it was a bit more than that..Prog was absolutely about musicianship (among other things) and to diminish the importance of it is a denial of what separated the prog [and fusion] artists from the other popular performers. Further, it was someone like Emerson or Fripp's firm, academic grasp of western musics and music history that allowed them to play the visions they had in their head. This had little to do with the Beatles or any other band. The timing was right, prog was not to be denied, and dare I say would have occurred even without the existence of the Fab Four.
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Well, that's your opinion. It isn't mine. Plenty of other genres of music feature technical virtuosity, but they aren't prog in the least.
I'm not saying above par musicianship isn't important, but it isn't a requirement in order to be progressive. If you see it differently, that is perfectly fine; your opinion is perfectly valid, but in my eyes, simply playing good on your instrument doesn't make you a prog artist; it's a combination of many different factors, and if a couple of those ingrediants don't make it into the mix with every single prog band, that shouldn't give reason to disregard their importance to the genre.
Harrison and McCartney were great players. Granted they can't shred, sweep-pick or anything like that, but just take a look at anything McCartney wrote for the guitar and you can clearly see that while he wasn't the fastest fret-hog in the world, he had some very creative techniques of his own. Same goes for Harrision. Playing Sitar is not teeny-boppy garbage in the slightest. John Lennon's compositional skills were years ahead of their time. Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day in the Life, Rain, Revolution 1, Revolution 9, etc. Are all very progressive songs in nature. They went against the grain, and just because Ringo never played polyrhythms and George never shredded means nothing as far as I am concerned. Was the music new and interesting? Yes. Were the songs memorable? Yes. Did the Beatles influence countless musicians (many of whome would go on to compose Prog music)? Absolutely.
I know there were other artists around at the time that broke equal ground, but the Beatles were the best at it, in my opinion. How could they not be considered a progressive act. This is ProgArchives, not TechnicalVirtuosityArchives.
Yes
Genesis
Black Sabbath
Led Zeppelin
Dream Theater
Tool
Are just a handfull of the artists that have cited Beatles as influences. Ozzy Osbourne has said that had The Beatles not existed, he probably wouldn't have become a musician. Yes started out by playing Beatles covers because they respected their music so much. Chris Squire said on the YES Documentary DVD that he was inspired to become a musician when he saw them performing live on television.
To say that prog would still have occured had the fab four not existed may be true, but I'm willing to bet that prog would be a helluva lot different today, because many key prog artists of the past would not have been around, either, considering how many of them were signularly inspired by the beatles first and foremost.
I've said what I had to say on this matter. That's all there is.
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Leftoverture
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Posted: February 03 2009 at 11:12 |
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eh, all arguements about musicianship aside, I think "I Am The Walrus" should be in the mix. Lyrically and otherwise. Tell me that couldn't be a song of any PF album in the 70's.there was and still is a fine fine line between prog and psych rock, and since the Beatles were just doing what they thought sounded good, I'll put that song in there. most Psychedelic rock sounds dated and bluesy to me, but some of the Beatles songs sound as frwash and original as ever. and I love the song Penny Lane!
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Progressive Beatles !
