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Windhawk 
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Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 11401
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 Posted: January 27 2009 at 22:37 |
 birdwithteeth11 wrote:
This is a matter of self-defense and national security for them. If you think they've done something horribly wrong, I want to know what your opinion is on it, not the opinion shared by a million and one journalists.
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Well, I've had my opinion for the last 25 years or so, formed by: 1. Relatives and acquaintances doing UN duty in Lebanon - all of them with strong pro-Israel views when going down I might add. 2. Studying history at university level 3. What I've been told by colleagues visiting Israel and Palestine in more recent times As to what is wrong, disregarding what happened down there prior to 1948: 1. The settlers and the Israeli governments more or less open support of their behaviour 2. Israel's constant efforts in trying to drive away people in territories surrounding their nation to expand their boundaries 3. Planned murder of civilians with the excuse that "there are surely terrorists among them" 4. The ideology that a Palestine/Muslim is worth less than other human beings (reported to me by one of my colleagues who visited Israel last year) I might add to this last one that my colleagues are generally positive to Israel. Priests usually are, for religious reasons. The situation reminds me very much of what was once the deal in South-Africa; there is a certain master race attitude to the behaviour of Israel in this matter as I see it. main difference in this case of course being that both sides have weapons; and that the Palestinians in some manners are much worse off than the coloured people of SA was until apartheid was removed.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 04 2008
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Points: 3658
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 03:34 |
tszirmay wrote:
^^^^^That was the original "intent" of the Balfour agreement! The idea was to do precisely that (read the Israeli declaration of independence by Ben Gurion) , BTW, what about the nearly 1 million Palestinian-Arab-Israelis living in the pre-1967 regions of Israel? Everyone seems to ignore this reality. And I saw with my eyes that they were not living in squalid ghettoes and ostracized. But the media is not interested in this verifiable fact. Hypocrisy , as usual. |
The fact is that this area now have a race they call untermensch and a race they now call ubermensch. I thought we had learnt the lessons from WW2, but Israel has proved me wrong. If I treated an animal like Israel treats the palestinians in Hebron and in Gaza, I would had been put in jail. That's the facts of this conflict. What's happening in Hebron is shameful and utterly shameful.
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 04:37 |
Windhawk wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
This is a matter of self-defense and national security for them. If you think they've done something horribly wrong, I want to know what your opinion is on it, not the opinion shared by a million and one journalists.
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Well, I've had my opinion for the last 25 years or so, formed by:
1. Relatives and acquaintances doing UN duty in Lebanon - all of them with strong pro-Israel views when going down I might add.
2. Studying history at university level
3. What I've been told by colleagues visiting Israel and Palestine in more recent times
As to what is wrong, disregarding what happened down there prior to 1948:
1. The settlers and the Israeli governments more or less open support of their behaviour Not exactly and never as a policy. It's more the lack of preventing some settlers (a deffinite small minority) than any government decision.
2. Israel's constant efforts in trying to drive away people in territories surrounding their nation to expand their boundaries If you were in Lebanon you should know better than that. Israel never took a squared inch from Lebanon's land.
3. Planned murder of civilians with the excuse that "there are surely terrorists among them" No ! there were ocasions where after shooting a place where a terorist shot first from, it was discovered that civilians were there too (civilians who never prevented the shooting but in some cases could not). This is not a planned murder.
4. The ideology that a Palestine/Muslim is worth less than other human beings (reported to me by one of my colleagues who visited Israel last year) There is no such ideology. The sraeli law says that all citizens equalls the same and have the same rights. I think you are messing between stupid personal thoughts of individuals and iseology. I'm quite sure I can find in Norway people that thinks Nords are better than others (actually I've been to Norway and met few a****les who were thinking so. Does that mean that Norway have such an ideology ?).
I might add to this last one that my colleagues are generally positive to Israel. Priests usually are, for religious reasons.
The situation reminds me very much of what was once the deal in South-Africa; there is a certain master race attitude to the behaviour of Israel in this matter as I see it. main difference in this case of course being that both sides have weapons; and that the Palestinians in some manners are much worse off than the coloured people of SA was until apartheid was removed.
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omri
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 04:51 |
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
^^^^^That was the original "intent" of the Balfour agreement! The idea was to do precisely that (read the Israeli declaration of independence by Ben Gurion) , BTW, what about the nearly 1 million Palestinian-Arab-Israelis living in the pre-1967 regions of Israel? Everyone seems to ignore this reality. And I saw with my eyes that they were not living in squalid ghettoes and ostracized. But the media is not interested in this verifiable fact. Hypocrisy , as usual. |
The fact is that this area now have a race they call untermensch and a race they now call ubermensch. I thought we had learnt the lessons from WW2, but Israel has proved me wrong. If I treated an animal like Israel treats the palestinians in Hebron and in Gaza, I would had been put in jail. That's the facts of this conflict.
What's happening in Hebron is shameful and utterly shameful. |
This claim is nonsense ! There are no nurenberg laws in Israel and all citizens has the same rights unlike what was going on in the third reich or during the aparthied in Sout africa.
You should also distinct between Gaza and Hebron. Gaza is for 2.5 years now free from Israelis and the fact they decided not to do any act which helps their own people to make a living (no building of electrical power plant, drinking water plant or any industry and demanding Israel to give them work) and using the money they get mostly to buy missiles to shoot cities and villages in Israel is their own decision. If they were doing else nobody would have stop them doing so.
Hebron is an occupied teritory and you can blame Israel for any crime comited there against the Palestinians. Yet, if you try to messure life in Hebron versus life in Jordan for example you'll find out that life is better in Hebron in many aspects (I do agree it would be better if the Palestinians in Hebron could rule their life but in other places where they got the chance to do so they prefered to keep fighting Israel and attack innocent civilians i.e. Gaza).
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omri
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Points: 1250
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 04:57 |
Windhawk wrote:
Heh, from what I know of local conditions down there, it's a drawing that speaks volumes about the distribution of power. Israel controls water supply to Palestina, Israeli soldiers decide whether or not most Palestinians are allowed to get to work - as many work in Israel or Israel-controlled area;Wrong ! there is no Israeli controlled areas. the recent admission of Israel in the use of white phosphor in bombarments against civilan areas in Palestine comes to mind. And the somewhat unjust power balance between a professional modern army that can call on the help of the US with the snap of a finger and an underground guerilla movement is an undeniable fact.
It is also a fact that there is at least 100 Palestinian victims for each one on the Israeli side. That is true if you count only the last weeks. In the last 8 years about a 1000 of Israeli civilians were killed by human bombers and missiles. Are you more sattisfied of the death proportions now ?
For those facets of the conflict this drawing is very much representative - originally published in a Norwegian newspaper earlier this year.
BTW - a minor detail in the grand debate worth looking at for thise interested in the state of affairs down there: http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel
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Edited by omri - January 28 2009 at 04:58
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omri
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omri
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Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 05:02 |
tszirmay wrote:
^^^^^That was the original "intent" of the Balfour agreement! The idea was to do precisely that (read the Israeli declaration of independence by Ben Gurion) , BTW, what about the nearly 1 million Palestinian-Arab-Israelis living in the pre-1967 regions of Israel? Everyone seems to ignore this reality. And I saw with my eyes that they were not living in squalid ghettoes and ostracized. But the media is not interested in this verifiable fact. Hypocrisy , as usual. |
No ! The intent of the Balfour decleration (not an agreement), was that the Jewish nation has the right to it's own land and that land is in Israel.
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omri
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
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Points: 2720
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 06:19 |
Having Israel in that location just isn't working out. Fault equally on both sides, from what I've gathered.
Why isn't Israel re-located to somewhere like Arizona?
The natives are friendlier there, I've heard.
It's not the holy land, granted, isn't it better to live in peace than have a war that will never end?
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Windhawk
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Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 11401
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 06:52 |
omri wrote:
That is true if you count only the last weeks. In the last 8 years about a 1000 of Israeli civilians were killed by human bombers and missiles. Are you more sattisfied of the death proportions now ?
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Victims count in the last -month- in palestina is 1300, according to statistics. More victims in one month than Israel has suffered in 8 years...
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46838
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 06:56 |
npjnpj wrote:
Having Israel in that location just isn't working out. Fault equally on both sides, from what I've gathered.
Why isn't Israel re-located to somewhere like Arizona?
The natives are friendlier there, I've heard.
It's not the holy land, granted, isn't it better to live in peace than have a war that will never end? |
hahahha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Windhawk
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Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 11401
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 06:57 |
omri wrote:
1. The settlers and the Israeli governments more or less open support of their behaviour Not exactly and never as a policy. It's more the lack of preventing some settlers (a deffinite small minority) than any government decision.
Ah yeah, and the military support for the settlers is accidental rather than planned by the government then. In that case Israel have a masive problem with power abuse in the armed forces.
2. Israel's constant efforts in trying to drive away people in territories surrounding their nation to expand their boundaries If you were in Lebanon you should know better than that. Israel never took a squared inch from Lebanon's land.
Hmmm, guess 1967 never happened then - just a figment of our imaginations?
3. Planned murder of civilians with the excuse that "there are surely terrorists among them" No ! there were ocasions where after shooting a place where a terorist shot first from, it was discovered that civilians were there too (civilians who never prevented the shooting but in some cases could not). This is not a planned murder.
Random bombardment of civilian areas happens just by accident....for decades? I find that rather hard to believe.
4. The ideology that a Palestine/Muslim is worth less than other human beings (reported to me by one of my colleagues who visited Israel last year) There is no such ideology. The sraeli law says that all citizens equalls the same and have the same rights. I think you are messing between stupid personal thoughts of individuals and iseology. I'm quite sure I can find in Norway people that thinks Nords are better than others (actually I've been to Norway and met few a****les who were thinking so. Does that mean that Norway have such an ideology ?).
An Israeli journalist was quoted with that being a prevalent opinion in the majority of the population. If that can be coined an ideology or if it's just the majority of the population that are a''holes can of course be discussed.
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Windhawk
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Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 11401
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 06:59 |
omri wrote:
Wrong ! there is no Israeli controlled areas. |
The West Bank and Golan comes to mind...
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 09:04 |
npjnpj wrote:
Having Israel in that location just isn't working out. Fault equally on both sides, from what I've gathered.
Why isn't Israel re-located to somewhere like Arizona?
The natives are friendlier there, I've heard.
It's not the holy land, granted, isn't it better to live in peace than have a war that will never end? |
Well that maybe the situation today but most of american Indians were killed to get to that point. More than tthat the Americans still try to prevent Mexicans of coming in. i'm not sure they will welcome 6 milions of Isralis. And, it would be fair to offer a land in your country rather than other's.
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omri
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omri
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Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Points: 1250
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 09:06 |
Windhawk wrote:
omri wrote:
That is true if you count only the last weeks. In the last 8 years about a 1000 of Israeli civilians were killed by human bombers and missiles. Are you more sattisfied of the death proportions now ?
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Victims count in the last -month- in palestina is 1300, according to statistics. More victims in one month than Israel has suffered in 8 years... |
A true comparison should only deal with civilians. Not all of the 1300 were civilians (means - not victims).
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omri
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omri
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Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Points: 1250
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 09:21 |
Windhawk wrote:
omri wrote:
1. The settlers and the Israeli governments more or less open support of their behaviour Not exactly and never as a policy. It's more the lack of preventing some settlers (a deffinite small minority) than any government decision.
Ah yeah, and the military support for the settlers is accidental rather than planned by the government then. In that case Israel have a masive problem with power abuse in the armed forces. The assignment of the army there is to deffend the jewish settlments. So they get confused when those who are supposed to be guarded are those who are offensive. And in many cases the criminals are prosecuted but the media in Europe ignores it (well, it doesn't fit the story that one side is bad and the other is good. You western are uncapable (as a group) to deal with complicated situations).
2. Israel's constant efforts in trying to drive away people in territories surrounding their nation to expand their boundaries If you were in Lebanon you should know better than that. Israel never took a squared inch from Lebanon's land.
Hmmm, guess 1967 never happened then - just a figment of our imaginations? In case you don't know it, in 1967 Lebanon was not involved. More than that in 1967 the Israeli government declared the land occupied for negociating for peace. No arab country wanted to negociate. Later, some of the Israelis wanted to take these lands for good but legally it is still not part of Israel and probably will never be.
3. Planned murder of civilians with the excuse that "there are surely terrorists among them" No ! there were ocasions where after shooting a place where a terorist shot first from, it was discovered that civilians were there too (civilians who never prevented the shooting but in some cases could not). This is not a planned murder.
Random bombardment of civilian areas happens just by accident....for decades? I find that rather hard to believe. No random bombardment ever occured ! This is a great example of telling a lie enough times and people will believe it's true. Any bomb had an adress.
4. The ideology that a Palestine/Muslim is worth less than other human beings (reported to me by one of my colleagues who visited Israel last year) There is no such ideology. The sraeli law says that all citizens equalls the same and have the same rights. I think you are messing between stupid personal thoughts of individuals and iseology. I'm quite sure I can find in Norway people that thinks Nords are better than others (actually I've been to Norway and met few a****les who were thinking so. Does that mean that Norway have such an ideology ?).
An Israeli journalist was quoted with that being a prevalent opinion in the majority of the population. If that can be coined an ideology or if it's just the majority of the population that are a''holes can of course be discussed. so ? somebody said something. Does it mean it is true ? Most Israelis think that Palestinians want to kill all Jews and establish a Palestinian country and therefore they are the enemy we should fight. Any other conclusions not based on any survey is a claim should be proved.
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omri
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omri
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Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 09:27 |
Windhawk wrote:
omri wrote:
Wrong ! there is no Israeli controlled areas. |
The West Bank and Golan comes to mind... |
A great example of twisting the other side's words.
There is no controlled teritories where people from Gaza can go to work in. about a third of the population in the west bank are unoccupied themselves so they don't need workers from Gaza.
The people of Gaza wants to work in Israel cause this is the place they can find work and get payed for. The idea they are free and can establish their own economy is something never crossed their minds (probably cause they are too busy thinking how can they kill some more Israeli civilians).
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omri
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Windhawk
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Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 11401
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 10:03 |
omri wrote:
A true comparison should only deal with civilians. Not all of the 1300 were civilians (means - not victims). |
Not quite updated those numbers, but last I saw from the UN were 1010 civilian Palestinian victims since December 27th 2008.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 10:14 |
omri wrote:
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
^^^^^That was the original "intent" of the Balfour agreement! The idea was to do precisely that (read the Israeli declaration of independence by Ben Gurion) , BTW, what about the nearly 1 million Palestinian-Arab-Israelis living in the pre-1967 regions of Israel? Everyone seems to ignore this reality. And I saw with my eyes that they were not living in squalid ghettoes and ostracized. But the media is not interested in this verifiable fact. Hypocrisy , as usual. |
The fact is that this area now have a race they call untermensch and a race they now call ubermensch. I thought we had learnt the lessons from WW2, but Israel has proved me wrong. If I treated an animal like Israel treats the palestinians in Hebron and in Gaza, I would had been put in jail. That's the facts of this conflict.
What's happening in Hebron is shameful and utterly shameful. |
This claim is nonsense ! There are no nurenberg laws in Israel and all citizens has the same rights unlike what was going on in the third reich or during the aparthied in Sout africa.
You should also distinct between Gaza and Hebron. Gaza is for 2.5 years now free from Israelis and the fact they decided not to do any act which helps their own people to make a living (no building of electrical power plant, drinking water plant or any industry and demanding Israel to give them work) and using the money they get mostly to buy missiles to shoot cities and villages in Israel is their own decision. If they were doing else nobody would have stop them doing so.
Hebron is an occupied teritory and you can blame Israel for any crime comited there against the Palestinians. Yet, if you try to messure life in Hebron versus life in Jordan for example you'll find out that life is better in Hebron in many aspects (I do agree it would be better if the Palestinians in Hebron could rule their life but in other places where they got the chance to do so they prefered to keep fighting Israel and attack innocent civilians i.e. Gaza). |
You are misunderstanding me. The laws in Israel is great and I have only admiration for those laws. There is no disagreements between you and me about that. What I am referring to is the illegal and racist behaviour of some very powerful settlers in Hebron. They ignore all the Israeli laws with the full support of the army (IDF). This is giving both Israel and jews in general a very bad name. Throwing stones at old women gives jews a bad name. This is done by 0.0001 % of all jews. But guess what ? 100 % of all jews gets the blame for this. Is it fair ? Off course not !! But that's how it is. If I blow up a building in Scotland, my fellow Norwegians will be tarnished with that act. That's how it is. Please also remember that most of these Hebron settlers are regarded as terrorists (Meir Kahane) in USA and the rest of the world. That also includes Israel. Gaza.......... what a mess. Israel created Hamas. Israel withdraws from Gaza. Israel blockades Gaza and destroy all the chances for the palestinians to create their own living. Hamas then f******* up the rest of Gaza. Hamas attacks Israel with rockets. Hamas kills innocent Israeli children. Israel attacks Gaza and commit what I believe they will be taken to the Haag court for. War crimes in other words. WHAT A MESS ! To drag Jordan into it is irrelevant. The conflict is in Gaza and on the West Bank. Not in Jordan and not in Sudan. I do not believe in two states. I believe in one state and no masterrace and no subhumans.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 10:14 |
omri wrote:
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
^^^^^That was the original "intent" of the Balfour agreement! The idea was to do precisely that (read the Israeli declaration of independence by Ben Gurion) , BTW, what about the nearly 1 million Palestinian-Arab-Israelis living in the pre-1967 regions of Israel? Everyone seems to ignore this reality. And I saw with my eyes that they were not living in squalid ghettoes and ostracized. But the media is not interested in this verifiable fact. Hypocrisy , as usual. |
The fact is that this area now have a race they call untermensch and a race they now call ubermensch. I thought we had learnt the lessons from WW2, but Israel has proved me wrong. If I treated an animal like Israel treats the palestinians in Hebron and in Gaza, I would had been put in jail. That's the facts of this conflict.
What's happening in Hebron is shameful and utterly shameful. |
This claim is nonsense ! There are no nurenberg laws in Israel and all citizens has the same rights unlike what was going on in the third reich or during the aparthied in Sout africa.
You should also distinct between Gaza and Hebron. Gaza is for 2.5 years now free from Israelis and the fact they decided not to do any act which helps their own people to make a living (no building of electrical power plant, drinking water plant or any industry and demanding Israel to give them work) and using the money they get mostly to buy missiles to shoot cities and villages in Israel is their own decision. If they were doing else nobody would have stop them doing so.
Hebron is an occupied teritory and you can blame Israel for any crime comited there against the Palestinians. Yet, if you try to messure life in Hebron versus life in Jordan for example you'll find out that life is better in Hebron in many aspects (I do agree it would be better if the Palestinians in Hebron could rule their life but in other places where they got the chance to do so they prefered to keep fighting Israel and attack innocent civilians i.e. Gaza). |
You are misunderstanding me. The laws in Israel is great and I have only admiration for those laws. There is no disagreements between you and me about that. What I am referring to is the illegal and racist behaviour of some very powerful settlers in Hebron. They ignore all the Israeli laws with the full support of the army (IDF). This is giving both Israel and jews in general a very bad name. Throwing stones at old women gives jews a bad name. This is done by 0.0001 % of all jews. But guess what ? 100 % of all jews gets the blame for this. Is it fair ? Off course not !! But that's how it is. If I blow up a building in Scotland, my fellow Norwegians will be tarnished with that act. That's how it is. Please also remember that most of these Hebron settlers are regarded as terrorists (Meir Kahane) in USA and the rest of the world. That also includes Israel. Gaza.......... what a mess. Israel created Hamas. Israel withdraws from Gaza. Israel blockades Gaza and destroy all the chances for the palestinians to create their own living. Hamas then f******* up the rest of Gaza. Hamas attacks Israel with rockets. Hamas kills innocent Israeli children. Israel attacks Gaza and commit what I believe they will be taken to the Haag court for. War crimes in other words. WHAT A MESS ! To drag Jordan into it is irrelevant. The conflict is in Gaza and on the West Bank. Not in Jordan and not in Sudan. I do not believe in two states. I believe in one state and no masterrace and no subhumans.
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 10:22 |
omri wrote:
1. The settlers and the Israeli governments more or less open support of their behaviour Not exactly and never as a policy. It's more the lack of preventing some settlers (a deffinite small minority) than any government decision.
Ah yeah, and the military support for the settlers is accidental rather than planned by the government then. In that case Israel have a masive problem with power abuse in the armed forces. The assignment of the army there is to deffend the jewish settlments. So they get confused when those who are supposed to be guarded are those who are offensive. And in many cases the criminals are prosecuted but the media in Europe ignores it (well, it doesn't fit the story that one side is bad and the other is good. You western are uncapable (as a group) to deal with complicated situations).
In other words - you think that sending the army in to defend the illegal occupants isn't a matter of governmental support. Nice. As for complicated situations - ever heard of Yugoslavia?
2. Israel's constant efforts in trying to drive away people in territories surrounding their nation to expand their boundaries If you were in Lebanon you should know better than that. Israel never took a squared inch from Lebanon's land.
Hmmm, guess 1967 never happened then - just a figment of our imaginations? In case you don't know it, in 1967 Lebanon was not involved. More than that in 1967 the Israeli government declared the land occupied for negociating for peace. No arab country wanted to negociate. Later, some of the Israelis wanted to take these lands for good but legally it is still not part of Israel and probably will never be.
From your description Israel keeps this piece of land hostage - to be blunt. And legally it will never be seen as a part of Israel by the world at large - I believe there have been a few calls from the UN in this matter as well.
3. Planned murder of civilians with the excuse that "there are surely terrorists among them" No ! there were ocasions where after shooting a place where a terorist shot first from, it was discovered that civilians were there too (civilians who never prevented the shooting but in some cases could not). This is not a planned murder.
Random bombardment of civilian areas happens just by accident....for decades? I find that rather hard to believe. No random bombardment ever occured ! This is a great example of telling a lie enough times and people will believe it's true. Any bomb had an adress.
Ah yeah, the outbombing of high rise buildings with civilan population were planned after all then, as I surmised. Back to the opening of this paragraph then - now confirmed by you.
4. The ideology that a Palestine/Muslim is worth less than other human beings (reported to me by one of my colleagues who visited Israel last year) There is no such ideology. The sraeli law says that all citizens equalls the same and have the same rights. I think you are messing between stupid personal thoughts of individuals and iseology. I'm quite sure I can find in Norway people that thinks Nords are better than others (actually I've been to Norway and met few a****les who were thinking so. Does that mean that Norway have such an ideology ?).
An Israeli journalist was quoted with that being a prevalent opinion in the majority of the population. If that can be coined an ideology or if it's just the majority of the population that are a''holes can of course be discussed. so ? somebody said something. Does it mean it is true ? Most Israelis think that Palestinians want to kill all Jews and establish a Palestinian country and therefore they are the enemy we should fight. Any other conclusions not based on any survey is a claim should be proved.
"Most Israelis think that Palestinians want to
kill all Jews and establish a Palestinian country and therefore they
are the enemy we should fight." - interesting statement.
And can you really blame Palestinians who've had their entire family eradicated by Israeli bombs for starting to hate and becoming extremist? And the families driven from their homes in 1948 an the years prior to that who've also experienced the wars there for the following decades, and have lost friends and families along the way - can you imagine what hatred they must feel?
When 120 civilian victims in average each year instills that sort of emotion among Israelis; can you imagine how much more extreme the emotions are on the other side of the fence?
Personally I'm amazed that there still are people in Palestina vying for peace rather than conflict; who are willing and able to forgive.
But, as stated earlier in this thread - from a personal point of view I think both Palestinians and Israelis have proven themselves uncapable of being in charge of a nation. The UN should take over the leadership of the territories and establish an international zone there. As the situation is now, peace won't be established - and it's only a matter of time before an extremist on one side or the other; raving mad after loosing everything dear to him or her in life, gets hold of a nuclear bomb.
Which could be rather intriguing from a theoretical historical point of view - but something I'd rather not want to experience from a point of view as a human being.
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: January 28 2009 at 15:16 |
omri wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Having Israel in that location just isn't working out. Fault equally on both sides, from what I've gathered.
Why isn't Israel re-located to somewhere like Arizona?
The natives are friendlier there, I've heard.
It's not the holy land, granted, isn't it better to live in peace than have a war that will never end? |
Well that maybe the situation today but most of american Indians were killed to get to that point. More than tthat the Americans still try to prevent Mexicans of coming in. i'm not sure they will welcome 6 milions of Isralis. And, it would be fair to offer a land in your country rather than other's. |
I think he wants to dump 6 million Israelis in our country because a large portion of the world views our country as a sh*thole.
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