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Petrovsk Mizinski 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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 Posted: January 20 2009 at 20:13 |
 WHY WAS THIS BUMPED? ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Seriously, I just get out of bed and see this having been bumped after it should have died. Hopefully, I will be saying this for the last time: The Prog Metal Team will not be changing their mind on the matter.
Yeah fair enough, we have bands like Nightwish listed here (which is about as 'progressive' as Stratovarious ), and if we were allowed to delete bands, I would get rid of them instantly, but those kinda metal bands were added before the days of Teo and the PMT being full set up and in full swing, and weren't added by PMT members anyway.
But nowadays, it's changed and we are committed to adding only proper progressive metal bands.
Fact is, some of the bands in Prog Metal, Tech/Extreme and Post/Experimental make Stratovarious look kinda like pop music.
Arghh, what's with the text size, I changed it to size 2 and it wouldn't match the text size in the opening bit
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 02:54 |
I think the ongoing debate simply shows that there are plenty of people who feel they have a place here. The prog metal team have rejected them, and we should respect that decision which has been explained well.
They have not however been rejected for prog related, and there seem to be different views even within the PM team on whether they fit there.
No need for the thread to be locked, everyone is behaving!
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 05:29 |
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BTW: What happened to Avantasia? I thought they were cleared for addition as prog related about half a year ago. In that light, I think that Stratovarius can definitely be added as prog related, too.
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3069
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 05:55 |
Accepting Stratovarius for prog-related will mean that youīll have to deal with lots of suggestions on similar bands. Bands like Sonata Arctica and Helloween ( hell they practically invented the euro power metal genre and deserves a place on PA long before Stratovarius should even be considered IMO. Not that I would ever suggest Helloween in the first place. I donīt think they should be added to PA even though they were leaders/ innovators in the late eigthies euro power metal genre).
Most of Stratovarius songs are in 4/4 with conventional vers/chorus structures and the only things that set them apart from more traditional heavy metal bands are the neo-classical element and occasional symphonic element in their music( and at times the high pace in their songs, but thatīs a common feature for Euro power metal bands). I would go as far as to calling them a pretty straight forward Euro power metal band. A leader in that genre for sure and a great band, but with very few prog-related elements IMO.
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3069
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 06:02 |
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And by the way Mike! I see that you got Extreme on your playlist. Now thereīs a band for prog-related that I would be supportive of.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 06:42 |
No way they should be here, just as Savatage should be bumped. Same frekkin' thing.
I'd except a trade off though: If they get on here, so should Tori Amos!  |
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19322
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 07:01 |
^^ this is the one that kills me... 
it certainly strengthens the case for Stratovarius being added as Prog Related...  |
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3069
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 07:16 |
I agree with the Tori Amos thing. But I fear that one is dead. Itīs not more than a few months ago there was a major discussion about her. I havenīt heard the result of that one yet though.
And yes Masterplan being here is a bit strange and does mean that suggesting Stratovarius seem natural. I think that Harryīs ( HughesJB4) explanation above tells a bit of that story though and you canīt undo additions.
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b_olariu
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5532
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 08:19 |
hahahahaha  this thred becomes so intristing that I can't help it to write some words. If you want some bands that for one reason or another are listed under prog metal here in PA and they are prog metal like I'm Peter Pann here they are: Suspyre, Theocracy, Pyramaze, Masterplan, Ride the Sky, Theodore Ziras, Hittar Cuesta,Lars Eric Mattsson, (who is the finish similarity of Malmsteen, and I don't see Malmsteen here but Mattsson yes) etc. Why they've enter in first place, the PM team have some attraction on this bands or I don't get it. To be crystal clear I like those bands mentioned above and I enjoy listning to their albums but they are not prog metal.So why not Stratovarius, if these are enterd already, realy I don't see why thay are rejected with so anger.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19322
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 08:23 |
^^ I think you are undermining your own credibility by listing Suspyre in with that group... they are possibly one of the most prgressive metal bands around today...in both senses of the word...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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b_olariu
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5532
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 08:30 |
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Not to me , their last two albums A great divide and When time fades are power metal to me all the way, of course they are good but not prog metal
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 08:40 |
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Hmmm, complex compositional structures, utilizing elements from jazz, blues, classical symphonic and symphonic prog; planned use of dissonances and asynchron musical and rhythmical elements equals power metal?
Man, I have listened to power metal bands for 20+ years now. Guess all of these bands were tagged the wrong way by metal specialists then...
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 08:53 |
Well, if someone can't hear the difference between Suspyre and Stratovarius ...  it's a really good example of prog vs. none (or "not quite") prog.
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
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Points: 3069
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 09:18 |
I fully understand the frustration <B>Bogdan</B>. You see other bands on PA that you deem less progressive than Stratovarius and you think itīs unfair that those bands have been added when Stratovarius are rejected. I feel exactly the same way about some of the bands that Iīve suggested for tech/ extreme metal that has been rejected, but you have to accept the decisions of the teams. Not without stating your opinion of course and if you have enough good and well thought out arguments ( pretty hard for some of us sometimes when english is our second or third language, but thatīs the conditions) it is possible that a rejected act will be re-considered. Iīve seen it happen. In the case of Stratovarius it seems that the prog metal team is very certain in their decision though, but it seems that there is a door open in prog-related. I still donīt agree with prog-related ( or a PA addition at all) but it seems that the prog-related team at least has agreed to discuss the band and thatīs positive IMO.
And remember that bitching about bands that have been added doesnīt really help, because they canīt be removed and it will not help getting Stratovarius added to state that they should be here because this and this band are here ( I do it myself sometimes, but itīs a bad argument that is seldom accepted, and quite often it annoys people).
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:17 |
This ecuation could be used:
Stratovarious= Prog Related. Fair
Edited by Alberto Muņoz - January 21 2009 at 12:18
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:44 |
If anyone would like to take on adding Stratovarius to Prog Related, please let me know and I will approach the admin team to see if they wll approve them for that category.
Avantasia were certainly approved for prog related Mike. Was it one of Jody's maybe?
Edited by Easy Livin - January 21 2009 at 12:50
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:48 |
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Bob, if the admin team approves Stratovarius for prog related I am willing to write up a bio and add their albums to their page.
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b_olariu
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5532
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 13:54 |
 Windhawk wrote:
Hmmm, complex compositional structures, utilizing elements from jazz, blues, classical symphonic and symphonic prog; planned use of dissonances and asynchron musical and rhythmical elements equals power metal?
Man, I have listened to power metal bands for 20+ years now. Guess all of these bands were tagged the wrong way by metal specialists then...
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After a close listen to last two albums, you are right, Suspyre is prog metal. Retract my words about them as power metal band 
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 13:56 |
^I offered myself to add Avantasia and will do it the next weeks, after I clear some issues here at home that are taking more time than usual. About Stratovarius, if Scott is on it, then the Admin team has to analyze.
As I said, I don't support Stratovarius for prog-metal, but I do for prog-related. They're as related to prog as bands (sadly) listed in prog-metal as Nightwish.
Someone mentioned Sonata Arctica. They could fit in part thanks to their last album, "Unia".
Helloween? Not the same.
Whoever hears all of this bands as sounding the same is obviously not one that listens to a lot of metal in general. I understand. It happened the same to me in the past with, for example, death metal (I mean LOOONG time ago - like 8 years) when everybody sounded the same to me. Obviously, then I learned and listened and that seems like a complete stupid thing to think on my part. It's like most of post rock, with some exceptions. Until you really listen to it constantly, everything sounds the same. Something similar happens to me with mainstream genres like reggaeton or most pop-hip/hop... wait... in this last cases I think I'm right...
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 21 2009 at 16:05 |
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Cheers guys, I've asked the Admin team for a decision.
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Stratovarius
