Phil Collins - Is He Any Good?

"Wind And Wuthering" less interesting than "A Trick Of The Tail"? Why do people keep knocking "Wind..."? It's filled with prog gems,more so than "A Trick...". To wit: "Eleventh Earl Of Mar", "One For The Vine", "All In A Mouse's Night", "Unquiet Slumber For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth",all classics. And not forgetting the whimsy of "Wot Gorilla" and the beauty of "Blood On The Rooftops". It has only one weak track,Rutherford's lamentable pop dirge which is so bad I've even forgotten the title of it! But the rest is very proggy and it has a very particular kind of etheral,very English,beauty to it that makes "Wind..." stand out in the Genesis canon.

As for "Invisible Touch" being the worst album ever by a prog band,yes it's pretty awful but it least it had "Domino" and "The Brazilian" which weren't half bad. I think the "honour" of the worst albums ever made by a prog band would undoubtedly have to go to Yes for their two crimes against humanity called "90125" and,especially "Big Generator".

Pity Phil didn't record more like "In the Air Tonight" - that was a great song.

I like ATOTT, WAW, ATTWT and Duke - all great Genesis albums, IMO - but showing a consistent decline in complexity in favour of catchy melodies. Nothing really wrong in that, as Phil's drumming remains consistently good.

However, the seeds of Phil's longing for horrible saccharine-filled love songs started as early as SEBTP with the revolting "More Fool Me" - a track made for CD, as turntables don't have skip buttons.

However, the question "Is he any good?" only requires ears to answer - and don't forget that Genesis, Brand X and his solo material is not the limitation of his dissemination - he recorded with loads of people, and his signature drum sound and style is quite special, IMO.

I grew up with 'Seconds Out' and the early Collins era Genesis was the prog music that I first came into contact with. I like Duke, I like Abacab and I even liked 'Genesis/Shapes/Mamma (whatever the damm thing is called), but not at the time they were released. All of the buggers we're growers for me.

The Gabriel era was secondary when I first got into the Charterhouse boys but I gradually investigated the early releases and found them to be astounding recordings that filled me with both awe and joy but it never shook my love for the 75-80 line up.

Collins contributed many lead vocals during the Gabriel era (many of you know this I suspect) above the 'More Fool Me' track from Selling England... eg, dual vocals on 'For Absent Friends' lots of one liners on and most of 'Lillywhite Lillith' from The Lamb.

Similarly I like the first two Collins solo albums but not as a prog listening experience. Brand X was a recent revelation to me and Collins (the drummer) truly shines. His playing is astonishing and along with Bill Bruford and Mark Mondesir, he is one of the best prog/jazz drummers to come out of the UK in the last forty years.

Latter period Genesis is the proverbial curate’s egg and I can count on the fingers of one hand the listenable tracks they contain. I do agree that latter day solo Collins is (in my opinion) without any redeeming features whatsoever.

For me, 'The Second's Out' live line up has been and always will be my favourite. Double drum bands are so cool. I mean look at Spock's Beard...

Funny enough Lunarscape, I re-purchased Platinum on CD just the other day.

How's that for off topic Pixel?

Blacksword wrote: Garion81 wrote: [QUOTE=Blacksword]     My comments are no more harsh than many others here. I'm expressing my opinion on Phil Collins. I'm not stating that I am correct, I am sharing my view. Thats the point of a forum. I accept your point about Banks and Rutherford wanting fame and fortune as much as PC. I, but remember Steve Hackett did jump ship, with a little help from his freinds of course. Genesis gradually pushed him out by rejecting the songs he was bringing to the band. His song 'Please dont touch' was bound for 'Wind & Wuthering' until PC said he dodn't want to play it, and instead the paying customer was left with 'Wot Gorilla'  That was when Steve Hackett worked out that they were heading for very 'safe' waters and that there was politics at play to get him out.  I'm not sure what you mean when you speak of not knowing where the rules are for the choices he made. Thats irrelevant. I never stated that there were any rules and that he should have followed a path of Prog obscurity. I dont personally like the celebrity thing, and as a long term Genesis fan I was dissapointed and quite surprised that PC would want to mix with that set. I considered what he had before to be better. He made his choice and as someone who has helped line his pockets over the years I consider myself entitled to criticize him.

All I meant was it was a bit harsh to say he was the only one that went down that road.  The three of them did after getting rid of SH. THe other part was due to you saying "he did nothing worng before".  I just think that he has done nothing worng period.  I don't like what he did but is not worng.  Just semantics on my part.  Almost everything else I agreed with you. You do have the right to critize him all you want (and I will stand right next to you and rage at him also)

But here is a question to all of you:

 If Genesis reformed with Peter and Steve and did a tour, knowing how Phil has put down the prog crowd (namley Us) and laughed all the way to the bank How many of you would shell out hard earned cash to see a show with him there knowing he is a hypocrite playing that music again just to take another dollar (or pound etc.) out of your wallet?  If you did go would you cheer him or boo him when he was introduced?

greenback wrote: Phil Collins is a true music God! One of the best drummers in the world, he flirted with the "top pop artist on the planet" status ! In other words, he has been able to interest many types of music listeners! And, obviously, songs like Ripples and Blood on the rooftops are nothing without Collins' voice! I prefer a guy like Phil Collins to Peter Hammill, who made tons of bland, irritating and unuseful albums! Actually, who likes such a bad singer?

As stated earlier my whole beef with him is not turning to pop or any other kind of music but turning his (and the band's) back on thier fans from the earlier stuff.  Not only by not playing any of this musc again but by being very critical of the progressive era fans(their fans) publicly. I can't think of another band, maybe Cat Stevens but at least he had a reason most people could respect,  who completly cut their ties with their own roots like that.