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Topic ClosedMost important band in building prog

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Poll Question: Which band on the list was the most important in building prog?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
48 [60.00%]
4 [5.00%]
1 [1.25%]
3 [3.75%]
5 [6.25%]
2 [2.50%]
13 [16.25%]
4 [5.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2008 at 03:48
Tony Banks credits influence from Procol Harum, and I don't think he was the only one of that early prog generation...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2008 at 07:17
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

I'd vote for the Beatles in any poll like this, but The Who comes in close second.


exactly Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2008 at 11:34
Robert Fripp on hearing the Beatles Sgt Pepper

Robert Fripp- When I was 20, I worked at a hotel in a dance orchestra, playing weddings, bar-mitzvahs, dancing, cabaret. I drove home and I was also at college at the time. Then I put on the radio (Radio Luxemburg) and I heard this music. It was terrifying. I had no idea what it was. Then it kept going. Then there was this enormous whine note of strings. Then there was this colossal piano chord. I discovered later that I'd come in half-way through Sgt. Pepper, played continuously. My life was never the same again.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2008 at 12:54
Really? I would have thought Fripp would have been more aware of some musical experimentations before hearing Sgt. Pepper. Well, we learn something everyday.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2008 at 13:53
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Really? I would have thought Fripp would have been more aware of some musical experimentations before hearing Sgt. Pepper. Well, we learn something everyday.
 
Possibly Bartok and Stravinsky but maybe not in the context of "pop music".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2008 at 13:57
I'm going to ignore the Beatles and say that Krautrock would have been very different without Pink Floyd's influence (especially Interstellar Overdrive, A Saucerful of Secrets and Careful With That Axe Eugene).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2008 at 16:02
Originally posted by A B Negative A B Negative wrote:

I'm going to ignore the Beatles and say that Krautrock would have been very different without Pink Floyd's influence (especially Interstellar Overdrive, A Saucerful of Secrets and Careful With That Axe Eugene).
 
 
 I remember reading that Revolver and especially  "Tomorrow Never Knows" had a profound impact on Syd Barrett founder member of Pink Floyd. I think Nice and Pink Floyd should be on this poll.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2008 at 17:56
Where are the Monkees?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2008 at 19:06
Could you please count The Beach Boys (releasing the great album Pet Sounds) in?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2008 at 13:20
Originally posted by peskypesky peskypesky wrote:

Where are the Monkees?


Backing Zappa and Captain Beefheart on an unreleased demo back in '65?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2008 at 19:18
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

none on the list for building prog,  I'd say the Nice --> ELP, early Yes & Genesis, Egg, Soft Machine, a few others



Wait, all of those bands were prog bands. They took what bands like The Beatles started, and made prog from stuff like that. Bands like The Beatles and Deep Purple built prog up to real prog, and then Yes and ELP took off fom where they left off.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2008 at 19:31
I was just being argumentative..  however, the Beatles didn't "build" prog at all nor many of the bands in the poll;  the Doors, Iron Butterfly? ..these were rock bands with a unique style, not protoprogressive as it relates to the British prog era..  sure the Beatles influence is clear in early Prog but they weren't 'the most important band in building prog' , they were the most important in building pop








Edited by Atavachron - December 18 2008 at 19:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2008 at 19:47
Originally posted by peskypesky peskypesky wrote:

Where are the Monkees?
 
 
Nowhere to be seen on a prog site.Wink

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2008 at 19:50
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

yes, Zappa was crucial to rock progressing and was doing it while or before most of the British groups, but his impact on the Prog movement has always seemed unclear  ..if one could pinpoint his influence on the English progressive scene I'd give it to him

 
 
I'd say it's less an artistic impact than a business impact, and I'd argue the same was true for the Beatles during the very early era (1964 original British Invasion bands).  By business impact I mean, Record Company A (in this case Verve) is making some money by virtue of Zappa (or thinks they will make money).  Record Company B sees Verve having some success with that "weird" music and decides it had better sign a "weird" artist or two, just to not miss out should the whole thing pan out.  Particularly in the '60s, I'd say this led to the signing of any number of bands who might normally have been left in the scrap heap. 
 
I don't mean to diminish FZ's contributions -- we all know McCartney cited Freak Out as an influence for Sgt Pepper.  But the impact is that some bands got signed to record contracts and released records, which in turn had some success which in turn allowed other bands to get signed, and so on.
 
Plus FZ was the first 'mainstream' rock musician I know of to actually use classical music in a song: the melodic quote from Stravinsky's Rite of Spring in Amnesia Vivace on Absolutely Free. 
 
(Edit: personally I voted for the Beatles, for the above-stated reason.)
 
 
 
 
Exactly. Even though Zappa's Freak Out influenced Sgt. Pepper tons, Sgt. Pepper's success has the biggest impact.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2008 at 22:25
Time to close the poll?  The Beatles have an insurmountable lead.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 12:59
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I was just being argumentative..  however, the Beatles didn't "build" prog at all nor many of the bands in the poll;  the Doors, Iron Butterfly? ..these were rock bands with a unique style, not protoprogressive as it relates to the British prog era..  sure the Beatles influence is clear in early Prog but they weren't 'the most important band in building prog' , they were the most important in building pop






 
 

I argue the Beatles were to Progressive rock like they were to the Byrds and folk rock and jangle pop and to Power Pop to bands like Cheap Trick and Badfinger. 

 

The Doors were actually influenced by Sgt Pepper it actually states it on the Doors 40th anniversary liner notes.  According to original engineer Bruce Botnick in the liner notes, he and the band listened to a monaural acetate reference disc of The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's before it was released and were awestruck by it. That album opened up the possibilities of what a studio can do, and inspired them.

 

 I really think if tracks like "Tomorrow Never Knows", or ”A Day in the Life" were released by someone other than the Beatles some would say these are the cornerstones of Progressive Rock. The Beach Boys or The Doors were not recording anything remotely close to this.  The Beatles were just not a pop band.  Zappa is far from the first to use a classical music influenced song in Rock Music. I think "Yesterday" and "For No One" is before Zappa.

 

 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 14:42
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I was just being argumentative..  however, the Beatles didn't "build" prog at all nor many of the bands in the poll;  the Doors, Iron Butterfly? ..these were rock bands with a unique style, not protoprogressive as it relates to the British prog era..  sure the Beatles influence is clear in early Prog but they weren't 'the most important band in building prog' , they were the most important in building pop






Building pop???? Don't try to tell me that Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road, and Revolver helped build pop music. And seriously, if The Doors, The Beatles, and Iron Butterfly didn't contribute to the building of prog at all, then what did?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 16:40
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I was just being argumentative..  however, the Beatles didn't "build" prog at all nor many of the bands in the poll;  the Doors, Iron Butterfly? ..these were rock bands with a unique style, not protoprogressive as it relates to the British prog era..  sure the Beatles influence is clear in early Prog but they weren't 'the most important band in building prog' , they were the most important in building pop






Building pop???? Don't try to tell me that Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road, and Revolver helped build pop music. And seriously, if The Doors, The Beatles, and Iron Butterfly didn't contribute to the building of prog at all, then what did?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 16:44
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I was just being argumentative..  however, the Beatles didn't "build" prog at all nor many of the bands in the poll;  the Doors, Iron Butterfly? ..these were rock bands with a unique style, not protoprogressive as it relates to the British prog era..  sure the Beatles influence is clear in early Prog but they weren't 'the most important band in building prog' , they were the most important in building pop

Building pop???? Don't try to tell me that Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road, and Revolver helped build pop music. And seriously, if The Doors, The Beatles, and Iron Butterfly didn't contribute to the building of prog at all, then what did?


the musicians themselves;  no one seems to consider the possibility that the first true prog artists - Brian Wilson, Emerson, Zappa, Fripp, Bo Hansson, McLaughlin, etc. - were taking from their own background and experiences, using the classical, jazz and traditional training they'd had and applying it to modern rock/psych    ..it is possible these guys did not simply say "Hey, them Beatles are cool, they're usin that there classical music and stuff",  but rather that their inspiration came from somewhere other than the dazed and confused sounds of psych and pop rock.  It's true the Psych scene did foster Prog in England and Europe - the conditions were right - but it was less a musical impact and more a cultural and marketing one.. to assume that the Doors, Beatles, Iron Butterfly and a few other 60s pop groups was the reason Prog developed is highly dubious.  The time was right, the proper musicians had arrived, and the world was ready.  If the Beatles and Doors had never existed, I wager we still would've had Prog.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 17:55
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I was just being argumentative..  however, the Beatles didn't "build" prog at all nor many of the bands in the poll;  the Doors, Iron Butterfly? ..these were rock bands with a unique style, not protoprogressive as it relates to the British prog era..  sure the Beatles influence is clear in early Prog but they weren't 'the most important band in building prog' , they were the most important in building pop

Building pop???? Don't try to tell me that Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road, and Revolver helped build pop music. And seriously, if The Doors, The Beatles, and Iron Butterfly didn't contribute to the building of prog at all, then what did?


the musicians themselves;  no one seems to consider the possibility that the first true prog artists - Brian Wilson, Emerson, Zappa, Fripp, Bo Hansson, McLaughlin, etc. - were taking from their own background and experiences, using the classical, jazz and traditional training they'd had and applying it to modern rock/psych    ..it is possible these guys did not simply say "Hey, them Beatles are cool, they're usin that there classical music and stuff",  but rather that their inspiration came from somewhere other than the dazed and confused sounds of psych and pop rock.  It's true the Psych scene did foster Prog in England and Europe - the conditions were right - but it was less a musical impact and more a cultural and marketing one.. to assume that the Doors, Beatles, Iron Butterfly and a few other 60s pop groups was the reason Prog developed is highly dubious.  The time was right, the proper musicians had arrived, and the world was ready.  If the Beatles and Doors had never existed, I wager we still would've had Prog.





 
Robert Fripp on hearing the Beatles Sgt Pepper

Robert Fripp- When I was 20, I worked at a hotel in a dance orchestra, playing weddings, bar-mitzvahs, dancing, cabaret. I drove home and I was also at college at the time. Then I put on the radio (Radio Luxemburg) and I heard this music. It was terrifying. I had no idea what it was. Then it kept going. Then there was this enormous whine note of strings. Then there was this colossal piano chord. I discovered later that I'd come in half-way through Sgt. Pepper, played continuously. My life was never the same again.
 
Pepper was influenced by Pet sounds, but Pet sounds was influenced from Rubber Soul.  Wilson's Smile
which was scrapped  because of "Strawberry Fields Forever'. Sure other artists experimented  but the Beatles were the ones who fueled the psychedelic era to the point where it was the status quo of the 60's-which is when the Stones copied them.
 
 They sucessfully incorporated traditional Indian music harmony and Avant-garde techniques used by classical musicians, such as the use of distorted tapes in studios to create new sounds as heard on "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Love You To".  In 'Eleanor Rigby', they used a quasi-Baroque string orchestration. Remember these were the Beatles ideas not George Martin ideas.  They were also mixing pop and classical techniques, and cross-fertilising them with Indian, and electronic music on tracks like "Strawberry Fields Forever". 
 
 "If the Beatles and Doors had never existed, I wager we still would've had Prog" 
 
That's sort of revisionist history thinking. That's like saying if it was not the Beatles then the Stones would have started the British Invasion.  We will never know so give credit where credit is due.


Edited by Chelsea - December 19 2008 at 17:58
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