Jimmy Carl Black - RIP - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Atkingani

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 18:35

Sadly I had to change this topic title.

RIP - JCB

Guigo

~~~~~~

Chris H

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 18:43

What a dark day for music lovers in general.

RIP Jimmy Carl Black...you will be missed by many.

Beauty will save the world.

jammun

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 19:50

Sad day indeed. He was a Mother from the very start.

febus

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 19:56

Sad news....seem a lot of people are leaving us lately!!

At least he will be seeing again FRANCK ZAPPA upthere!!

crimson87

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:03

febus wrote:

Sad news....seem a lot of people are leaving us lately!!

At least he will be seeing again FRANCK ZAPPA upthere!!

I have started to think about this since Rick Wright's death. I mean in 5 years time probably all of the greats will be gone. What's gonna happen to rock music? I am not leaving this just to prog , but mainstream rock Like The Rolling Stones , Bob Dylan , Neil Young , Aerosmith. It does not matter if you like them or not , but the point is that I don't want U2 to be the ultimate rock legend on earth. Bands nowadays suck. Who's gonna replace the Rolling Stones??.......................................................... The White Stripes????? That scares the s*it out of me.

Chris H

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:13

That's true...we live in a sad era because we have to just sit back and watch our heroes pass by and there will never be anyone to take their place.

Beauty will save the world.

febus

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:19

crimson87 wrote:

febus wrote:

Sad news....seem a lot of people are leaving us lately!!

At least he will be seeing again FRANCK ZAPPA upthere!!

I undestand what you feel

....sure from now some of the greats will leave us but not everybody within 5 years from now

.....a lot of the ''classic'' stars are in their 60s, still not the end of time yet

.......ELP still has plenty of time left to produce TARKUS part 2

............and i am sure Mick Jagger has plenty of Rollin Stones tours in mind in the future.............Geez!!!! Even K Richards is still alive....there is still hope

crimson87

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:29

It's weird , all the greats came from a time when playing rock music was rebellious , and they always had a will to improve and experiment. They released an album a year , at least. And to know them you had to be there , I mean buy the record going to a concert , buying a magazine waiting a whole year for a record to be released , seeing your favourite band changing their sound.

It's not like nowdays that in a couple of hours I can download all Genesis discography.And read lots of articles on the net. 40 years ago I guess It was much more romantic in a sense.

Let's put The Rolling stones as an example , you can say that nowdays they are a corporate monster , however I want to see all those punks (Not meaning punk rockers) in MTV having a career lasting for more than 40 years and making world tours.

The Stones are old and full of money.But when Mick Jagger sings a tune I still believe him , no matter if he is ricker than the Queen of England. They still are on the road. Same as Bob dylan.

Probably Rock and roll is not a suitable way of expression anymore.

febus

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Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:34

crimson87 wrote:

It's not like nowdays that in a couple of hours I can download all Genesis discography.And read lots of articles on the net. 40 years ago I guess It was much more romantic in a sense.

The Stones are old and full of money.But when Mick Jagger sings a tune I still believe him , no matter if he is ricker than the Queen of England. They still are on the road. Same as Bob dylan.

Probably Rock and roll is not a suitable way of expression anymore.

The Rolling Stones were already touring when i was a little kid...and they still do!!! Great.for the mind....

The day they are over, i may start actually feeling old

................Keep it up, Mick!!!

jimidom

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Posted: November 04 2008 at 13:30

R.I.P. Jimmy Carl Black. Thanks for all the great music!

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

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Posted: November 04 2008 at 13:33

R.I.P. Jimmy hope that you can paly with FZ those nasty songs in the first incarnation of the mothers

CPicard

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Posted: November 04 2008 at 13:57

One of the last "Great Whales". Another. I'm a bit upset and I would like to adress a message to all former Mothers Of Invention and musicians of Frank Zappa: stop dying, especially if you're the Indian of the band.

Jim Garten View Drop Down

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Posted: November 04 2008 at 14:00

Met the man a couple of times - friendly, funny, genuine, open.

Sleep well, Jimmy!

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

The T

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Posted: November 04 2008 at 16:48

RIP the guy.

Why is this thread in the main prog lounge and the singer of CURRENT band Shadow Gallery's obituary buried in secondary lounges?

Anyway, RIP this unknown (to me) musician. He must've been talented.

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

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Posted: November 04 2008 at 16:55

The T wrote:

RIP the guy.

Why is this thread in the main prog lounge and the singer of CURRENT band Shadow Gallery's obituary buried in secondary lounges?

Anyway, RIP this unknown (to me) musician. He must've been talented.

Imagine, he was the first drummer of FZ in fact he formed the Soul Giants with Roy Estrada and FZ join them, transforming The Soul Giants to Mothers of Invention

Jim Garten View Drop Down

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Posted: November 05 2008 at 04:06

The T wrote:

Anyway, RIP this unknown (to me) musician. He must've been talented.

From The Guardian (UK):

Jimmy Carl Black, who has died of cancer aged 70, was drummer and sometimes lead vocalist with Frank Zappa's Mothers of Invention between 1965 and the group's bitter break-up in 1970. The Mothers created concerts and albums that mixed pop-Dada, 1950s doo-wop, jazz, schmaltz, Stravinsky, Varèse and Webern. Black was to the fore as Lonesome Cowboy Burt, a highlight of Zappa's 200 Motels movie (1971). He was the man who introduced himself as "the Indian of the group" on the band's album, We're Only in It for the Money (1968), and was a central figure in If We'd All Been Living in California, a dialogue on corporate finances on Uncle Meat (1969).

Black, who inherited Cheyenne blood from his mother, was born in El Paso, Texas, but grew up in nearby Anthony on the New Mexican border. He was a soloist in his high school band's brass section, "but I realised that there was no chance in rock'n'roll for a trumpeter, after Elvis Presley appeared at El Paso Coliseum in 1955. When I saw the effect he had on those women, I thought, 'Man. That's what I want to do!'"

Though he could strum a guitar and had had piano lessons, Black bought a drum kit and practised by playing along mostly to black rhythm and blues records. While serving in the US air force, he joined a country and western trio, Them Three Guys, and, following demobilisation in 1958, played mainstream pop with the Surfs and then the Keys - with whom Black recorded Stretch Pants (1962).

Two years later, he moved to Los Angeles, and formed the Soul Giants, who played LA dance halls. When the guitarist was drafted into the army, he was replaced by Zappa, who told the band, according to Black, that "if you guys learn my music, I'll make you rich and famous".

"He took care of half of that promise," said Black, "because I'm damn sure I didn't get rich." Renamed the Mothers of Invention, the group followed Zappa's masterplan to a qualified prosperity via concerts and, later, albums. "Frank made me aware of modern classical stuff," said Black, "and very patiently taught me all those complex rhythms and time signatures."

But Black became increasingly unhappy about Zappa's control. He resented the enlistment of a second drummer, and Zappa claiming authorship of tracks such as If We'd All Been Living in California. "I never knew he'd taped it at a band meeting," he complained. "I wasn't credited. Everything was 'written, arranged and produced by Frank Zappa'. Then a week after a successful tour, he called us together and said, 'I've decided to break up the band. Your salaries have stopped as from last week.' It was a big shock. I had five kids to feed."

Postscripts to Black's tenure with Zappa embraced his role in 200 Motels, and an exhumation in 1981 of his character in it, Lonesome Cowboy Burt, for Harder Than Your Husband on Zappa's You Are What You Is album.

In 1972 Black had success with two albums as leader of Geronimo Black, named after his youngest son. But by 1974 a Melody Maker interview was conducted in Winebel's Donuts, where he was, indeed, making doughnuts.

He then moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico, released a solo album, Clearly Classic, which achieved minimal circulation, and joined a Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band world tour.

Black then settled in Austin, Texas, where he established the Gentlemen of Colour, a building-and-decorating business with Arthur Brown, the English star of the 1960s Crazy World of Arthur Brown. The firm flourished for 10 years - as did an artistic liaison which was to culminate in an album of R&B standards, Brown, Black and Blue (1980). Black was also performing with Eugene Chadbourne - "the free-est form guitar player I've ever met" - and the Grandmothers, initially, former Mothers band members fronted by the Italian guitarist and Frank Zappa lookalike Sandro Oliva. Their CDs included a concert recorded in 1998 at London's Astoria theatre.

Increasing success in Europe led Black to move to Vicenza, Italy with his then wife, a schoolteacher with the US army. After her death, he moved to Germany, home of his second wife Monika. In 1995 he began playing with the Muffin Men, the best British interpreters of the work of Zappa and Beefheart. Black was on the road with the group as recently as 2007. Assisted by Roddie Gilliard of the Muffin Men, he was working on an autobiography, For Mother's Sake.

He is survived by Monika, three sons and two daughters.

• James Carl Inkanish Black, drummer and singer, born February 1 1938; died November 1 2008

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

Alucard

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Posted: November 05 2008 at 05:11

I didn't knew he was so ill....just a couple of days ago I got a great Zappa concert recording from 1975 in El Paso and as quite often Zappa had invited JCB to sing a couple of songs during the show and this was kind of a special occasion, because it was Jimmy's hometown and he got this really touching way to sing these old R&B tunes....welcome to Pachuco heaven.....

Edited by Alucard - November 05 2008 at 05:12

Tadpoles keep screaming in my ear
"Hey there! Rotter's Club!
Explain the meaning of this song and share it"

Syzygy

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