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Henry Plainview 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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 Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:43 |
 MovingPictures07 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I actually didn't care for Romney. |
His father was awesome too in his politics, generally.
Romney came off to me as someone who really knew what he was doing. He has managed to have a successful career as governor, he is a really successful businessman, and he is quite knowledgeable in economics and politics. He also seemed like a very natural leader, particularly from his speeches. That's what I discerned anyway.
He wasn't even close to my dream candidate, but I definitely would have preferred him to our two current candidates.
What we need is one good politician for once who wants to actually stand up against all this crap that's going on anymore. Someone who isn't afraid to say their opinion, be logical in their conclusions, and ultimately be willing to allow individuals to keep their rights which they deserve. We're drifting further and further away from the principles of individualism that we were founded on: that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. No one is equal, as we're all different people. Each individual in a free-market system that is truly not interfered by political or government interests has that opportunity.
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Romney was competent, he wouldn't have picked Palin. I would have voted for him, I cannot vote for Palin.
I love how Guiliani spent 49 million to get 1 delegate. It's not often someone is such a transparently bad person even the electorate rejects them. |
I like Palin alright, but a Romney ticket would have been so much better and I think it's what this country needs much more so than anything that's actually on the ballot.
Haha, Guiliani was alright, but that was funny. Especially since before the primaries he was considered one of the largest candidates for the Republicans. Once the primaries started, it's like he crashed and burned. 
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It was a glorious moment for me. I'm no Democrat, but the way that 9/11 he always would invoke 9/11 in order to get some kind of emotional 9/11 from the audience really 9/11 me.
I don't think you guys really understand what Obama is saying. Not that I would expect it from Ron Paul fans. ;-) The point is not to punish the wealthy, the point is to make them pay their fair share--there are several reasons they pay less of a percentage in taxes than you do, and not just because they exploit loopholes. If a 2% tax increase is going to bankrupt you, you're not living within your means. And for some reason everybody ignores that most people are getting tax cuts...
And he's almost certainly going to win anyway, and then we'll see what his ride is like, so our opinions don't really matter. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:45 |
Zappa88 wrote:
Ok I retract my statements, I'll throw 2 cents into the pond here..
No matter what, in 4 years this country will still be standing. You need to have faith in the system. All 4 of the people in the limelight (McCain, Obama, Biden, Palin) are perfectly competent and can hold thier own on the political spectra. Palin may not have the same experience and she may be an unknown, but even if that ticket does not get the White House, don't be surprised to see her take a seat in the Senate (maybe at the absence of Sen. Stevens) and return with more experience to be a VP choice again. She was picked solely for the purpose of winning back the socially conservative. Obama, on the other hand, is more experienced than McCain supporters like to portray him as. Senator? Obviously has the experience to win an elected position and campaign on his own platforms, very successfully might I add. His 50 state approach is a very well thought-out idea, and like McCain, there are parts of his campaign as well as his isues that I don't agree with.
But then again, I'm not old enough to vote...so just remember, trust the system and you can't go wrong. Whoever takes the White House will do a superb job I'm sure, both men are more than capable of holding the office. |
I understand your points there, but my view is more cynical whereas yours is more naive. Sure, when the system is fine, you can trust it. But ours has gradually become more and more corrupt for quite a while now, and I find myself not willing to trust many people out there. And for good reason. Obama has hardly any experience. Being a Senator means you're likeable and you can bullsh*t really well. That's all it is. Biden is a crook. McCain has had quite a life and he's more honorable but he never speaks up. He really should. Palin is the best of the 4, in my opinion. She's still far from being someone I extremely like, but she does have some good ideas going on in there and I'd trust her way before I would the others. She has experience in running a mini-country (a state) as a governor, and generally governors actually DO things. Senators don't, as I see it. They're a bunch of goofing off, manipulative, corrupt b*****ds who don't really care about protecting what this country stands for. They're not ALL like that, but it's hard to think of more than a few exceptions.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32541
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:46 |
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Prog Jeopardy categories are posted, fellas.
Go to it!
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:49 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Palin is the best of the 4, in my opinion. She's still far from being someone I extremely like, but she does have some good ideas going on in there and I'd trust her way before I would the others. She has experience in running a mini-country (a state) as a governor, and generally governors actually DO things. Senators don't, as I see it. They're a bunch of goofing off, manipulative, corrupt b*****ds who don't really care about protecting what this country stands for. They're not ALL like that, but it's hard to think of more than a few exceptions.
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Oh, you're one of those people. I've never actually seen someone think all politicians except for Palin suck.
Running a town a 13,000 people really prepares her for the White House, though! It is fascinating that people are calling Obama a socialist, when Palin was the one who sent checks from large corporations to everyone in the state...
Epignosis wrote:
Even if you redistributed the wealth so that everyone started off with exactly the same thing, in ten years (or less), you're going to see the same demographics we have now. Some people are users, some people are losers, some people are ramblers, and some people are gamblers.
And some will give all theirs to the church.
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:/ What on earth makes you think such a ridiculous thing? Do you realize how much exponentially higher the world's wealthiest people are from the average? I'm not saying that is a terrible thing, but saying Bill Gates will make his 7 billion back in ten years is ridiculous.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:49 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I actually didn't care for Romney. |
His father was awesome too in his politics, generally.
Romney came off to me as someone who really knew what he was doing. He has managed to have a successful career as governor, he is a really successful businessman, and he is quite knowledgeable in economics and politics. He also seemed like a very natural leader, particularly from his speeches. That's what I discerned anyway.
He wasn't even close to my dream candidate, but I definitely would have preferred him to our two current candidates.
What we need is one good politician for once who wants to actually stand up against all this crap that's going on anymore. Someone who isn't afraid to say their opinion, be logical in their conclusions, and ultimately be willing to allow individuals to keep their rights which they deserve. We're drifting further and further away from the principles of individualism that we were founded on: that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. No one is equal, as we're all different people. Each individual in a free-market system that is truly not interfered by political or government interests has that opportunity.
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Romney was competent, he wouldn't have picked Palin. I would have voted for him, I cannot vote for Palin.
I love how Guiliani spent 49 million to get 1 delegate. It's not often someone is such a transparently bad person even the electorate rejects them. |
I like Palin alright, but a Romney ticket would have been so much better and I think it's what this country needs much more so than anything that's actually on the ballot.
Haha, Guiliani was alright, but that was funny. Especially since before the primaries he was considered one of the largest candidates for the Republicans. Once the primaries started, it's like he crashed and burned.
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It was a glorious moment for me. I'm no Democrat, but the way that 9/11 he always would invoke 9/11 in order to get some kind of emotional 9/11 from the audience really 9/11 me.
I don't think you guys really understand what Obama is saying. Not that I would expect it from Ron Paul fans. ;-) The point is not to punish the wealthy, the point is to make them pay their fair share--there are several reasons they pay less of a percentage in taxes than you do, and not just because they exploit loopholes. If a 2% tax increase is going to bankrupt you, you're not living within your means. And for some reason everybody ignores that most people are getting tax cuts...
And he's almost certainly going to win anyway, and then we'll see what his ride is like, so our opinions don't really matter. ;-) |
It's the principle of keeping as much money in the hands of the individuals as possible. I'm more of a Minarchist in that regard; the economy should be left primarily to private and individual hands. Thus, I'm against any sort of tax hike as a means to increase careless government spending. If people are going to be taxed, and they will, then yes, everyone should pay a reasonable share. However, the wealthy make the economy go around. The reason the Great Depression occurred was because people were careless, the gap between the rich and the poor became too high, and then to top things off, Woodrow Wilson started heavily introducing taxes to the wealthy. The wealthy thus tried to hide their money from taxes (which they will inevitably do) and stopped spending. Because the top 2% of the population controlled nearly all of the money supply by that point, you can guess what happened when they stopped. We shouldn't reach that point again. And we will if this whole re-distribution of wealth is maneuvered. People should be able to reap the benefits that they sow.
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:50 |
My further comments on politics: 
Just get out and vote!
(we get a pizza party if there is a 70% VEP turnout...)
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Beauty will save the world.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32541
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:51 |
Zappa88 wrote:
My further comments on politics:
Just get out and vote!
(we get a pizza party if there is a 70% VEP turnout...) |
Ah, to be young again and look forward to a pizza party...
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:51 |
Anyone here from New Jersey?
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Beauty will save the world.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:52 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Palin is the best of the 4, in my opinion. She's still far from being someone I extremely like, but she does have some good ideas going on in there and I'd trust her way before I would the others. She has experience in running a mini-country (a state) as a governor, and generally governors actually DO things. Senators don't, as I see it. They're a bunch of goofing off, manipulative, corrupt b*****ds who don't really care about protecting what this country stands for. They're not ALL like that, but it's hard to think of more than a few exceptions.
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Oh, you're one of those people. I've never actually seen someone think all politicians except for Palin suck.
Running a town a 13,000 people really prepares her for the White House, though! It is fascinating that people are calling Obama a socialist, when Palin was the one who sent checks from large corporations to everyone in the state... |
You're either misunderstanding more or completely twisting my words. I repeatedly have said I like Palin, but not even that much. I never said she was even close to perfect, and I even said I think McCain is alright. And I never said that "all politicians except for Palin suck".  I just said I'm generally very cynical with regards to our politicians, and that includes Republicans and Democrats.
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:53 |
Epignosis wrote:
Zappa88 wrote:
My further comments on politics:
Just get out and vote!
(we get a pizza party if there is a 70% VEP turnout...) |
Ah, to be young again and look forward to a pizza party...
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A pizza party never goes out of style...especially when you have great cholesterol 
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Beauty will save the world.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32541
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:53 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Palin is the best of the 4, in my opinion. She's still far from being someone I extremely like, but she does have some good ideas going on in there and I'd trust her way before I would the others. She has experience in running a mini-country (a state) as a governor, and generally governors actually DO things. Senators don't, as I see it. They're a bunch of goofing off, manipulative, corrupt b*****ds who don't really care about protecting what this country stands for. They're not ALL like that, but it's hard to think of more than a few exceptions.
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Oh, you're one of those people. I've never actually seen someone think all politicians except for Palin suck.
Running a town a 13,000 people really prepares her for the White House, though! It is fascinating that people are calling Obama a socialist, when Palin was the one who sent checks from large corporations to everyone in the state...
Epignosis wrote:
Even if you redistributed the wealth so that everyone started off with exactly the same thing, in ten years (or less), you're going to see the same demographics we have now. Some people are users, some people are losers, some people are ramblers, and some people are gamblers.
And some will give all theirs to the church.
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:/ What on earth makes you think such a ridiculous thing? Do you realize how much exponentially higher the world's wealthiest people are from the average? I'm not saying that is a terrible thing, but saying Bill Gates will make his 7 billion back in ten years is ridiculous. |
You missed the point.
Bill Gates won't make his 7 billion back in ten years, but somebody will. I said it's the same demographic.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:55 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Palin is the best of the 4, in my opinion. She's still far from being someone I extremely like, but she does have some good ideas going on in there and I'd trust her way before I would the others. She has experience in running a mini-country (a state) as a governor, and generally governors actually DO things. Senators don't, as I see it. They're a bunch of goofing off, manipulative, corrupt b*****ds who don't really care about protecting what this country stands for. They're not ALL like that, but it's hard to think of more than a few exceptions.
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Oh, you're one of those people. I've never actually seen someone think all politicians except for Palin suck.
Running a town a 13,000 people really prepares her for the White House, though! It is fascinating that people are calling Obama a socialist, when Palin was the one who sent checks from large corporations to everyone in the state... |
You're either misunderstanding more or completely twisting my words. I repeatedly have said I like Palin, but not even that much. I never said she was even close to perfect, and I even said I think McCain is alright.
And I never said that "all politicians except for Palin suck".
I just said I'm generally very cynical with regards to our politicians, and that includes Republicans and Democrats.
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Well I was exaggerating a bit. But I really do not see the appeal of Palin at all. Maybe I'm just an elitist. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32541
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:56 |
Zappa88 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Zappa88 wrote:
My further comments on politics:
Just get out and vote!
(we get a pizza party if there is a 70% VEP turnout...) |
Ah, to be young again and look forward to a pizza party...
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A pizza party never goes out of style...especially when you have great cholesterol |
Do you get beer?
I rest my case.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:57 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Palin is the best of the 4, in my opinion. She's still far from being someone I extremely like, but she does have some good ideas going on in there and I'd trust her way before I would the others. She has experience in running a mini-country (a state) as a governor, and generally governors actually DO things. Senators don't, as I see it. They're a bunch of goofing off, manipulative, corrupt b*****ds who don't really care about protecting what this country stands for. They're not ALL like that, but it's hard to think of more than a few exceptions.
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Oh, you're one of those people. I've never actually seen someone think all politicians except for Palin suck.
Running a town a 13,000 people really prepares her for the White House, though! It is fascinating that people are calling Obama a socialist, when Palin was the one who sent checks from large corporations to everyone in the state... |
You're either misunderstanding more or completely twisting my words. I repeatedly have said I like Palin, but not even that much. I never said she was even close to perfect, and I even said I think McCain is alright.
And I never said that "all politicians except for Palin suck".
I just said I'm generally very cynical with regards to our politicians, and that includes Republicans and Democrats.
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Well I was exaggerating a bit. But I really do not see the appeal of Palin at all. Maybe I'm just an elitist. ;-) |
I'll say.   I respect your opinion though.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:00 |
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Call me an optimist.
I think Obama will govern more from the center than he wants to, much like Clinton did.
But I also think Obama's lying when he says he'll only raise taxes on the wealthy. When the Bush tax cuts expire, expect a giant shrug of the shoulders, and talk about sacrifice and "necessary investments".
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:00 |
The one time I have time for the VR, it's all political. I spend 3 hours a day talking politics, come home and type a few pages on certian issues, and then repeat the process. Now it's taking over my internet sanctuary!!?!? 
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Beauty will save the world.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:02 |
NaturalScience wrote:
Call me an optimist.
I think Obama will govern more from the center than he wants to, much like Clinton did.
But I also think Obama's lying when he says he'll only raise taxes on the wealthy. When the Bush tax cuts expire, expect a giant shrug of the shoulders, and talk about sacrifice and "necessary investments".
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I don't think so, because the house and senate are Democrat power. There will be no filobusters because the dominant party will be able to completely pass anything they want without any opposition, so long as they are united on that front. It will logically then be Carter years or worse, most likely. If Obama does get elected, I hope you're right, Pat.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32541
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:02 |
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Go play Jeopardy, Zappa. We need players.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:02 |
Zappa88 wrote:
The one time I have time for the VR, it's all political. I spend 3 hours a day talking politics, come home and type a few pages on certian issues, and then repeat the process. Now it's taking over my internet sanctuary!!?!? |
I'm ready to stop and steer the conversation otherwise. In Praise of Learning is one of the best albums EVER. 
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:03 |
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Dear Monsters, Be Patient is one the best albums of this decade.
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Beauty will save the world.
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