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Topic Closed25 More Keyboardists?
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Poll Question: Your pick of these 25 keyboardists?
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10 [17.54%]
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10 [17.54%]
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King Crimson776 View Drop Down
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Points: 2779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 03:05
Out of your list Keith Emerson, but Neal Morse should definitely be on here.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 04:02
Originally posted by RoidRageOnStage RoidRageOnStage wrote:

 
 
 
I don't even care if people think this poll sucks (I like it, otherwise I wouldn't have doe it), I know there are wrongs in it, I know it's missing out on a big amount of great musicians, one more thing there aren't musicians from all sub genres but then I've only picked out of genres that I know some of and love to listen to.
 
I like polls also, made three lately, about Kansas, STYX and Peter Gabriel, and there I received really hard posts, but never cared.
 
I jumped you because I got a bit angry since to me you did jump on another user in here and since I started the poll to me it's me that have to keep it friendly... maybe you didn't but I just want everybody to be friends in here, I'm all for opinions but it would be great if we could be more friendly in the way we say things.
 
Please, nobody is jumping at anyone, just giving an opinion.
 
Btw Kerry Livegren nearly wrote the whole Leftoverture album on his own, his a good musician aswell... you're voting for the musician in here not the band named in the brackets.
 
I believe he was a great musician and songwriter, I'm a Kansas fan (Not a Proto Kaw BTW), but I don't believe he's more than a good keyboardist
 
I was way wrong, it seemed like it was that long time ago... it realy did... I thought my account was deleted though it wasn't but I'm not going to use it, my old account was started May 30 in 2005.
 
I hope I'm going to have a better visit this time around and that I don't bore myself to death  Wink
 
Only get used, people will agree and disagree, there's no problem in that.
 
Iván
 
            
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Thijs Van Leer.
He's a quirky man, I dig that.
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Points: 120 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 04:14
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

Thijs Van Leer.
He's a quirky man, I dig that.
 
Yes he is, quite a one of a kind  Tongue
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Wha??  No votes for Eddie Jobson??  Time to put matters right, though it will make no difference in the result.
 
So many great keyboardists to choose from here Roid, but I've always loved Jobson's playing, although there hasn't been much output from him for so long.  So I'll get Eddie off the mark.  Don't think he'll beat Rick or Emo though.
 
Incidentally, I always thought Livgren played the majority of the keys in Kansas and that Walsh stepped up to the plate when the band were playing live and Kerry was on guitar duty.  Guess I was wrong.
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I'll go for Jon Lord and his customised 'Beast' - blew me away as a teenager!
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I gotta go with Chick Corea, but  I was happy to see Mike Pinder from the Moodies on this list. Smile
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Points: 4202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 09:06
Originally posted by RoidRageOnStage RoidRageOnStage wrote:

Originally posted by Bern Bern wrote:

 
If I could change the poll since it's still in an early stage I'd do it for you but I guess that's impossible right?
 
Too bad  Cry


No you can't but don't worry about it. Plenty of awesome keyboard players in there.



You can actually. Press post options and choose edit post.

Would have voted for Dave Stewart if he was in the poll. He's brilliant on loads of great albums in so many great bands. Egg, Hatfield, National Health, Khan, Steve Hillage, Bruford, and Arzachel... Quite an impressive list.

But I love Mike Ratledges playing just as much, so I voted for him.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 09:49
Ivan and I have butted heads before, right Ivan?  Wink  Never any malice intended.

I just was thinking about a keyboardist who can craft interesting keyboard parts- not just improvise or play a trillion notes a minute.

I would also dispute that Livgren was only an "additional" keyboardist.  Watch the live footage.  So many times, Steve leaves his place behind his organ to fully assume a front man role, leaving Kerry to man the keys.

However, Steve Walsh could do a freaking handstand on his keyboard...
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 10:24
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would also dispute that Livgren was only an "additional" keyboardist.  Watch the live footage.  So many times, Steve leaves his place behind his organ to fully assume a front man role, leaving Kerry to man the keys.

However, Steve Walsh could do a freaking handstand on his keyboard...
 
I had made a similar post earlier.  I was always under the impression that Livgren was the main keyboard player whilst Walsh was the frontman who stepped up to the plate on the keys when Kerry was on guitar duties.  Was it not Livgren who played the majority of the keys in the studio?  Surely Livgren was only the "additional" guitarist, Rich Williams being the main man on guitar?  Livgren is always credited as keys AND guitar, not the other way round.
 
However, I am no expert on Kansas and am happy to be corrected if I am wrong. 
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Points: 5851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 10:39

and
 
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 15:28
Roger (I feel like I've been mentioning this album quite a bit lately), but on the second disc of the new release of Two for the Show, the parts are mixed so that Kerry Livgren's guitar and keys are one side, and Rich Williams's guitar and Steve Walsh's keys are on the other (as I understand it).  And you can clearly hear these parts separated with headphones.  There are phenomenal keyboard parts on both sides.

The video here from the 1980 Audio-Visions tour of "No One Together" has Kerry on keyboards only, if I'm not mistaken, and it's fantastic piano playing.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 15:51
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Roger (I feel like I've been mentioning this album quite a bit lately), but on the second disc of the new release of Two for the Show, the parts are mixed so that Kerry Livgren's guitar and keys are one side, and Rich Williams's guitar and Steve Walsh's keys are on the other (as I understand it).  And you can clearly hear these parts separated with headphones.  There are phenomenal keyboard parts on both sides.
 
Interesting issue, on the early days and even worst the first time David Ragsdale was a violin player, Steve was more of a showman, so he left the keyboards on stage and went for the mike, there's one VHS where he's dressed and dancing as david Lee Roth. LOL
 
Only when his voice suffered, he started to leave Robby as the frontman and he sung more behind the keys as in Device Voice Drums
 
But I rely more in the studio albums, since the first one Stebve is especifically credited for organ and piano, while Kerruy with the generic term keyboards.
 
Quote
Kansas - Kansas
 
- Phil Ehart / drums
- Dave Hope / bass, backing vocals
- Kerry Livgren / lead & Rhythm guitar, backing vocals, keyboards
- Robbie Steinhardt / violin, lead vocals
- Steve Walsh / lead vocals, organ, piano, congas
- Rich Williams / lead guitar

Honestly Kerry did his main work as composer, being that he played guitar, but the lead guitar was always Rich and played keys, but Steve was the lead. 

The video here from the 1980 Audio-Visions tour of "No One Together" has Kerry on keyboards only, if I'm not mistaken, and it's fantastic piano playing.
 
Nobody says he's not good, most members of big bands are good at
their instruments, bit not outstanding necesarilly. For example Peter Gabriel does an good job playing keys on the Secret World Tour on some tracks, but he's not a virtuoso, only supporting Jean Claude Naimro.
 
Maybe my prejudices come because Kerry almost destroyed Kansas during his fundamentalist days and the fact that I absolutely can't stand Proto Kaw.
 
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Points: 32181 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 15:55
Kerry Livgren is heavily overlooked. 
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 16:37
Ivan, I think you're thinking of the much-maligned Live at the Whiskey concert, which happens to be one of my favorites, because it's so heavy- even though Steve looked like a complete moron in that getup.  LOL

He was high on coke, too.

Anyway, it's fine if you think of Kerry as a composer- he is, and great at it- but in order to compose something (at least back in the 70s), it was generally true that you had to be able to play it.  I realize Wakeman or Emerson could play circles around Livgren, but that's not why I voted for him.  I voted for him precisely because of his compositional efforts as a keyboardist- look at how many solo albums Wakeman has.  And how many of them suck? 

Hint:  I counted FOURTY-SIX studio albums from Rick Wakeman on PA that have less than a 3.00 rating, and that's not counting those that have a 3.00 rating.  Fourty-six crappy albums from a fantastic musician. 

So this is point- the guy may have the chops, but if he can't make anything anyone wants to listen to, what good is it if he can play it well (unless someone else is the brains behind the operation)?

I'll also admit that Proto-Kaw is hit or miss for me (although there are more hits than misses), but Christianity is far from the issue.  I believe a Christian musician should profess their faith in their music and give glory to God- that's what Christianity's about, right? 

I mean, I don't understand why it's so accepted that Livgren's early works about reincarnation and Urantia are so accepted, but as soon as he writes about Christ, he "almost destroyed Kansas?"  Steve Walsh had problems with Livgren's mystical songwriting even before the latter became a Chrstian.  If you ask me, Steve Walshs's need to be validated as a pop-rocker almost destroyed Kansas.
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Points: 120 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 16:39
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:

Wha??  No votes for Eddie Jobson??  Time to put matters right, though it will make no difference in the result.
 
So many great keyboardists to choose from here Roid, but I've always loved Jobson's playing, although there hasn't been much output from him for so long.  So I'll get Eddie off the mark.  Don't think he'll beat Rick or Emo though.
 
Incidentally, I always thought Livgren played the majority of the keys in Kansas and that Walsh stepped up to the plate when the band were playing live and Kerry was on guitar duty.  Guess I was wrong.
 
Jobson is cool, glad you placed the vote on him  Clap
 
Thanks Roj, I don't think so either... you placed a vote on him and that's great though.
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Points: 15745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 16:41
Excellent list, though there are too many I love, and they're too diverse on style, so there is really no preference over others..

No vote, once again.
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Points: 120 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 16:42
Originally posted by jimidom jimidom wrote:

I gotta go with Chick Corea, but  I was happy to see Mike Pinder from the Moodies on this list. Smile
 
Yeah Mike Pinder is great Smile
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 19:22
Polls such as these should omit Wakeman and Emerson (they are simply a notch a part) =too much technique, style and material. (Same goes for Bruford/Peart and Squire/Pastorius)Confused
 
I went with my avatar too Eddie Jobson (Curved Air, Tull, UK, Roxy and solo) is just yummy.
Minnear, Ratledge, Moraz, Fritz etc... all deserve votes , they are progmeisters all.
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 20:01
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Ivan, I think you're thinking of the much-maligned Live at the Whiskey concert, which happens to be one of my favorites, because it's so heavy- even though Steve looked like a complete moron in that getup.  LOL

He was high on coke, too.

Anyway, it's fine if you think of Kerry as a composer- he is, and great at it- but in order to compose something (at least back in the 70s), it was generally true that you had to be able to play it.  I realize Wakeman or Emerson could play circles around Livgren, but that's not why I voted for him.  I voted for him precisely because of his compositional efforts as a keyboardist- look at how many solo albums Wakeman has.  And how many of them suck? 
 
There we have a difference, I can separete the composer from the kwyboardist.
 
For example, I belive (and verified with my mother who is a graduate concertist) that Patrick Moraz and Vittoorio Nocenzzi (Banco) are miles beyond Wakeman or Emerson in technique, so I always vote for them as keyboardoists. But I don't like a single Moraz solo lbum, so if you ask for songwritter, I go with Wakeman and Emerson without any doubt.


Hint:  I counted FOURTY-SIX studio albums from Rick Wakeman on PA that have less than a 3.00 rating, and that's not counting those that have a 3.00 rating.  Fourty-six crappy albums from a fantastic musician. 
 
Wakeman had a problem, his contract with A&M was terrible, he thought he had ttime to make his own albums when the contract ended, but he had two heart attacks before he was 25, that scared the hell out of him, so he started to write popular albums when he could...What was popular? New Age.
 
But the few great Wakeman albums are cornerstones of Prog.


So this is point- the guy may have the chops, but if he can't make anything anyone wants to listen to, what good is it if he can play it well (unless someone else is the brains behind the operation)?
 
But the few excellent albums (at least 10) are fantastic and mopre than most musicians do in a lifetime career.


I'll also admit that Proto-Kaw is hit or miss for me (although there are more hits than misses), but Christianity is far from the issue.  I believe a Christian musician should profess their faith in their music and give glory to God- that's what Christianity's about, right? 
 
You want me to be honest? I only like what Livegren did with Kansas, none of his solo stuff, Proto Kaw or whatever is remotely good for me.
 
Now, Christian Rock, we had a long debate about this, and my position is that music must keep away from Evangelism and politics.
 
 I believe that if an artist uses his music as religious propaganda (No matter what religion, even Catholic and I'm a  Catholic believer), is no different from a TV jingle.

I mean, I don't understand why it's so accepted that Livgren's early works about reincarnation and Urantia are so accepted, but as soon as he writes about Christ, he "almost destroyed Kansas?"  Steve Walsh had problems with Livgren's mystical songwriting even before the latter became a Chrstian.  If you ask me, Steve Walshs's need to be validated as a pop-rocker almost destroyed Kansas.
 
I believe you're wrong.
 
Kansas was an excellent band until Walsh first and Steinhard after left, in that moment they started to sound as Christian Pop with Jon Elefante. The band was terrible, sounded worst than ever, all the personality left with Walsh and Robby
 
On an interview in http://parablemania.ektopos.com/archives/2006/06/phil_ehart_inte.html Phil Ehart who is also a Christian, is clear:
 
Quote He reveals that he himself is a Christian, but he didn't think it was fair to the band members who didn't share Kerry Livgren's views to turn the band into what effectively was acting as a Christian band.
 
By Jeremy Pierce
 
But that wasn't all, after their worst album (Drastic Measures) and with contracts pending, Livegren,  and Hope left the band and poor Phil Ehart stayed alone with Rich Williams.
 
Phil became producer, called Walsh who not only came, but brought Billy Greer to cover the hole left by Dave Hope, they recruited  Steve Morse and later David Ragsdale, only then the band started to sound great again.
 
So, if somebody almost destroyed Kansas (First turning them into a Christian Pop band and later leaving the band with all his Christian army), is Kerry Livegren.
 
On the other hand, Walsh came back when the band needed him more.
 
Iván
 
BTW: We are kidnapping the poll with other issues Epignosis, so if you want to follow with this, better open a new thread.
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 30 2008 at 20:09
            
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