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The Whistler 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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 Posted: October 20 2008 at 02:01 |
I dunno...I like the dude and all, but for something to be prog, doesn't it sorta hafta be...you know, ROCK and all? Isn't that half of it?
My vote for Bach then; that dude was insane.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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tokenrove
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 10 2008
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 34
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 07:36 |
 Tapfret wrote:
Whenever somebody points to a particularly complex prog tune being undanceable, I invariably point out th at The Rite of Spring, perhaps the most complex piece of music ever written (I have the sheet music, its insane), was written as a ballet.
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You should check out Kraanerg by Xenakis; it's a ballet, too. (I think the New Complexity composers take the cake for most complex music every written, but I don't know if they've written any ballets.)
The Whistler wrote:
I dunno...I like the dude and all, but for something to be prog, doesn't it sorta hafta be...you know, ROCK and all? Isn't that half of it?
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Well, Stravinsky was noted for composing some pieces through juxtaposition of unrelated sections rather than using classical motivic development. His use of development over ostinati (like leads over bass riffs) and static harmony is also more "rock" than other composers before him.
Plus, le Sacre is pure death metal -- Golem do a cover as the hidden track on Dreamweaver. (Okay, it's a pretty mediocre cover, but it certainly shows the piece could work as death metal.)
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:16 |
Stravinsky: genius, revolutionary, progressive, and 34872346 things more,
BUT,
ROCK????
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:44 |
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He's not rock. Yet Tangerine Dream are far from ROCK and they're still classed as PROG. Likewise with many other bands on this site.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:46 |
The T wrote:
Stravinsky: genius, revolutionary, progressive, and 34872346 things more,
BUT,
ROCK????
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Don't think anyone is arguing rock, just prog. But he composed for plenty of heavy metal. 
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 21:10 |
Well if Stravinsky's going to be in prog related, then I nominate Gershwin for Jazz rock/fusion 
But seriously, I think plenty of composers have influenced prog rock and metal. Especially Bach. That Bach and those exceptionally metallic chords.
And for all those people who think that Shostakovich was a metal composer, I have a story for you. I've been learning a Polka from the Golden Age Ballet, and as I was playing it in my school's band room, one of my friends who is a huge heavy metaller said he found it interesting and wanted to learn how to play it. And it's not like I haven't played any music at all that isn't the least atonal, but that Polka is just something else. I think if I practiced it too much, I would probably go mad.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:12 |
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Proto-Prog, definitely. Along with most other known composers in the western tradition from the renaissance onwards.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:16 |
The T wrote:
Stravinsky: genius, revolutionary, progressive, and 34872346 things more,
BUT,
ROCK????
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this site is not a prog ROCK site my friend.. you are well aware of that...*emoticon for wagging finger* metal  ... electronica... RIO/avant... this is probably an addition that should happen... other site's have him.. it is about time this site does.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:19 |
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The day I'll see classical music getting added in PA, I'll put my hat on and never come back...
BTW, classical music composers wrote compositions...works...opuses...every artist currently in PA (and I bet my life those to come as well), whether prog ROCK or just Prog has albums. I suppose the persons who suggest classical composers to be added have found the perfect solution to add their opuses, especially since, unlike the albums, these opuses were/are interpreted by 1 million different interprets. Or will we add Bruckner's symphonies directed by Celibidache, Solti, Abbado, Gergiev, Kurt Masur, Mariss Janssons, Gustavo Dudamel, Gheorghe Costin (not to mention the Philarmonicas) and every single other altogether....?
Edited by Ricochet - October 22 2008 at 16:25
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:21 |
micky wrote:
The T wrote:
Stravinsky: genius, revolutionary, progressive, and 34872346 things more,
BUT,
ROCK????
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this site is not a prog ROCK site my friend.. you are well aware of that...*emoticon for wagging finger*metal ... electronica... RIO/avant... this is probably an addition that should happen... other site's have him.. it is about time this site does. |
You got a good point. If there is more than just Prog Rock, why not Classical Prog?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:28 |
not classical music Vic.... but the progressive movement within classical... I know it isn't going to happen... so keep your hat on I think a section here on ...say.. the Russian nationalist composers of of the early 20th century, which had such a influence on what came to be be prog, would be a great addition for the site.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:34 |
micky wrote:
not classical music Vic.... but the progressive movement within classical... I know it isn't going to happen... so DON'T put your hat on, YET I think a section here on ...say.. the Russian nationalist composers of of the early 20th century, which had such a influence on what came to be be prog, would be a great addition for the site.
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That's Better
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:35 |
micky wrote:
not classical music Vic.... but the progressive movement within classical... I know it isn't going to happen... so keep your hat on I think a section here on ...say.. the Russian nationalist composers of of the early 20th century, which had such a influence on what came to be be prog, would be a great addition for the site.
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I fail to understand. "the progressive movement within classical"...have we lost sight of the classical music that influenced Prog Rock...are we now going into the "prog of classical"...and isn't the "prog of classical" still classical?! Even so, let's say we completely isolate the 'progressive movement within classical'. What is it made of? Is it made of some artists that formed a band? Is it made of specific albums that those grouped artists (officially) made? Or are we talking exactly about the classical music composer(s), who wroter opuses, whose music was played by numerous interprets, from the composer himself to three years old Chinese kids these days... Writing articles about "the progressive movement within classical" is perfectly fine...I could do it...Cert could do it...you could do it...but I believe we were talking about adding composers/classical music to PA! I'll let aside my idea of this being abberant, I'm just interested, for the moment, to know HOW we're gonna (or we could - or we would be able to) do that, exactly?
Edited by Ricochet - October 22 2008 at 16:37
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:46 |
Ricochet wrote:
micky wrote:
not classical music Vic.... but the progressive movement within classical... I know it isn't going to happen... so keep your hat on I think a section here on ...say.. the Russian nationalist composers of of the early 20th century, which had such a influence on what came to be be prog, would be a great addition for the site.
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I fail to understand. "the progressive movement within classical"...have we lost sight of the classical music that influenced Prog Rock...are we now going into the "prog of classical"...and isn't the "prog of classical" still classical?!
Even so, let's say we completely isolate the 'progressive movement within classical'. What is it made of? Is it made of some artists that formed a band? Is it made of specific albums that those grouped artists (officially) made? Or are we talking exactly about the classical music composer(s), who wroter opuses, whose music was played by numerous interprets, from the composer himself to three years old Chinese kids these days...
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oh hell Vic... those are questions to be asked and answered IF this was ever to be seriously considered... by those who know that music best. My passion and interest...along with knowledge is on the jazz side.. not as much classical. The question at first is a simple one... should highly influential classical composers be kept out of the archives simply because they are not rock.... when as we all know.... prog... is MUCH more.. and not limited TO rock. If the site is open to that... THEN those kind of questions can be addressed... and not by people like me.. who outside of a few artists.. really have little interest in classical..but what I do have an interest in is the educational side of the site... and to me it stunts that when you ignore something that was such a big influence on prog. If M@X or the admins were open to it... then we could proceed discussing what it is made of. No one is propoing Beethoven or Mozart... but a narrow range of composers that directly influenced and inspired 'classic' prog. That is something this site has been a bit lax in promoting... the minute the site expresses an interest... we can toss out ideas. Mine... is not like a standard artist addition... but a clear written sub-section more for informational purposes.. maybe with some samples.. for those that are curious about the roots of prog.. the inspirations of those that made prog. Anyhow.. not sure if I'm making sense.. and have the feeling of beating a dead horse anyway.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:58 |
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Let's just keep full-on western art music off this site.. to keep things simple
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jimidom
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2007
Location: Houston, TX USA
Status: Offline
Points: 570
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 17:03 |
Wait... Yes! I can see it now. Would it look something like this?
Symphonic Prog Classical: Rachmaninoff, Hindemith, Ravel, Falla
Extreme Symphonic Prog Classical: Mahler, Stravinsky, Debussy, Faure
CIO (Classical In Opposition): Schoenberg, Webern, Berg
Experimental Prog Classical: Cage, Varese, Reich
Minimalist Prog Classical: Glass, Riley, Young, Adams
I am being facetious of course. 
Edited by jimidom - October 22 2008 at 17:04
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 19:16 |
I think it would be hard to put in a discography, though I think there are some Gershwin and Stravinsky recordings if I'm correct because they were around in an era where there were records.
How we're going to get around putting in a Bach or Beethoven discography is going to be a tough fish to fry.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 19:21 |
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one option..which I mentioned.. is to not handle it like a standard artist addition... this is a reviews driven site... don't see many reviews... it would be more for educational purposes... more for the info... and streaming samples for those who really don't know the artists... discographies would be.. .daunting....
Edited by micky - October 22 2008 at 19:22
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 19:56 |
Either that, or Opusographies No, seriously, opi are very similar to albums, some longer than albums and some shorter. It doesn't really matter, because we're not actually reviewing the EPs/LPs, but the content within, and both opi and albums have musical content that is up for review. I think drawing the line at Pre-Modernism would be a good idea though. The site would quite literally be rammed packed and start getting utterly ridiculous. However, if Miles Davis is on the lists now, then so should Stravinsky. They both helped develop two sides of prog, Miles Davis for jazz and Stravinsky for the classical side.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: October 22 2008 at 19:59 |
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and the other that really should be here.... Stockhausen...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Igor Stravinsky - Prog? I think so!
