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The T 
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 Topic: Syd Barrett... what makes him a legend?
Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:42 |
Syd Barrett seems to be a legend among rock fans, pf fans, and prog-rock band. I've read many many comments that really make him sound like the second coming or something like that. I've even read comments stating that his loss was a disaster for Pink Floyd...
I have little knowledge of his work with the exception of The Piper At The Gates At Dawn which I just purchased a few days ago and have listened carefully lots of times. While I can hear some good things, I still don't see legend-material. Also, as he recorded only ONE more Pink Floyd album, thus making his whole PF output come to TWO, why is he so important?
I 'd like for those with more knowledge of the history of the band and hardcore PF fans to please tell me. I'm asking because I fail to see. I'm a PF fan myself, not a hardcore one , though, as I only have 10 of their albums and only one featuring Barrett. How come people even say that HE was the great thing about PF when all the REAL magic of the band came to be llong after he was gone?
Was he really a genius? Was he a talented guy that people adore only, as with many rock stars, because he died young? Answers would be appreciated.
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Vibrationbaby
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:48 |
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I hear you. I never did get it myself. I think it was more like 1 & ½ Pink Floyd albums. I think it was because he tripped out of his head onLSD which was a cool thing back in the sixties. Timothy Leary culture and all that. Had a high school teacher who was residue from the sixties and he used to actually tell us how hip it was to trip out back then and almost lose your head.
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Proletariat
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:55 |
T, I can see where your coming from, the debut sounds mostly like 60's pop... but syd is a genius. If you listen to his solo material you can see that his lyrics (while at first seeming odd or silly) do infact hold lots of meaning and are filled with droves of imagery (listen to Opel as an example) also syd took a completly diffrent direction musically from the norm at the time. Keep in mind that Pipers has some of these features but that Syd didn't really come into his own untill after he had left the floyd.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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The T
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:57 |
^Good point. Of course I'm ignorant about his solo material so I can see how I may not understand his status as legend.
But that's solo material. As part of PINK FLOYD, I still can't see any connection. PF's best moments are, undoubtedly, Barrett-LESS.
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Proletariat
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:02 |
 The T wrote:
^Good point. Of course I'm ignorant about his solo material so I can see how I may not understand his status as legend.
But that's solo material. As part of PINK FLOYD, I still can't see any connection. PF's best moments are, undoubtedly, Barrett-LESS. |
I agree... to an extent, I find pipers to be a masterpiece... even if it isn't syd's best effort. However PF's best moments are all tributes to Syd, evryone knows it, and that is why the public at large sees him as a hero, especially because his story is so compelling. But lets face it if pink floyd had broken up as syd left then they/he would only be remembered as one of many progressive psyche bands and would probably get lumped into canterburry on PA.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Queen By-Tor
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:04 |
The T wrote:
^Good point. Of course I'm ignorant about his solo material so I can see how I may not understand his status as legend.
But that's solo material. As part of PINK FLOYD, I still can't see any connection. PF's best moments are, undoubtedly, Barrett-LESS. |
I guess WYWH kind of immortalized him in that the album is pretty much
dedicated to the guy. His solo output is good, but not outstanding if
you're looking for PF caliber material. His music is very simplistic.
I suppose more a figurehead than anything?
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Ricochet
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:04 |
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Piper At The Gates Of Dawn was never a fantastic album to my ears, but it contains some heavy ideas that, in case you actually admire it, you can only credit Barrett for them. I understand a bit of Saucerful Of Secrets was made with Barrett too (sorry if I got it wrong), if so, SoS is pretty awesome, isn't it?
But Barrett gets to be a "music legend" when he made his solo tapes, because they're mostly great, unique and deep.
Of course, Pink Floyd is a cube with so many faces, for what it's worth, I agree Barrett alone isn't the "legend" inside PF - plus Piper At The Gates Of Dawn is puffy smokes compared to other much better things - but Barrett alone was an incredible musician.
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:11 |
Ricochet wrote:
Piper At The Gates Of Dawn was never a fantastic album to my ears, but it contains some heavy ideas that, in case you actually admire it, you can only credit Barrett for them.
that's right, it was his liberated sense of experimentation that may seem naive today but at the time was revolutionary
plus Piper At The Gates Of Dawn is puffy smokes compared to other much better things
I think Puffy Smokes is a rap star, Rico
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Edited by Atavachron - October 14 2008 at 17:12
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febus
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:15 |
He was not even on Saucerful of secrets PF's second album as a full member.He contributed to one song, the last one.
I think it's more the mystery surrounding his departure , the LSD, the supposed craziness and hallucinations that make him some kind of ''hero''.
Yes he has composed a few great songs, but mostly pop nuggets with a very psychedelic feel.
At the same time, Kevin Ayers, Robert Wyatt, D.Allen and M. Ratledge did the same kind of music but the musical press didn't give them as much attention than to SYD whose life was more tempting to use to create the ''legends''
Edited by febus - October 14 2008 at 22:43
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Rocktopus
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:16 |
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Interstellar Overdrive is the first well known real spacerock/krautrock/stretched out psychedelic track. Its certainly the most influenital. Its fantastic too, and way ahead of its time. No other british band sounded like this in 1967, atleast not on record. I love Piper, and I really don't care about PF after 1971.
Edited by Rocktopus - October 14 2008 at 17:17
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Over land and under ashes
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Dean
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 18:07 |
The spectre of Syd the man dominates Floyd's later work, and it was his "vision" as a musician and talent as a writer that set them on the course in the first place.
You have to view these things in context - Piper is not a Prog album, essentially launched off the back of two psyche pop singles - it took psyche pop to extremes that no other band could match at the time in terms of direction and experimentation - in early 1967 most of their contemporaries were still recording blues-based beat music that had been given an eastern slant to create the psychedelic sound - Barrett didn't do that - he just took simple ideas and extrapolate them without thinking or planning. As a talent he was intuitive and natural - he was essentially a creative improviser both on stage and in the studio, using feedback and echo to create dissonance and "other-worldly" sounds and techniques borrowed from avant garde and musique concrete to modify instruments and studio equipment. The whimsy of the lyrics (which were fairly common psychedelic fare at the time) is in part subverted by chaotic almost unstructured nature of the music, none of which had been seen in a Pop record up until then... As I said, it's context - it is difficult to imagine now just how radical Astronomy Domine sounded to people in 1967 when they played the album for the first time.
By comparison Saucerful is practically Proto-Prog thanks mainly to the title track. Featuring only one Barrett track (which in itself is a stark contrast to his songs on Piper), the other songs are clearly influenced by his approach and even at times attempt to emulate what he was doing.
His two solo album are practically a documentary of a break-down, reflecting his fragility and the tenuous hold he had on reality at times, musically they are simpler than Piper, the intuitive talent is still there but molded into the (IMO) unnatural (for him) singer/songwriter form where inherent 'cleverness' of the lyrics is more prevalent than the musical genius.
Measured by the profound effect his 'disappearance' from the scene had on the band itself, this is also reflected in mystique that was built up around him by the fans. This is partly due to the loss of what could have been if the talent had not been damaged and partly because he was a tragic and relatively high-profile (in the underground scene at least) casualty of the psychedelic drug culture of the time.
Edited by Dean - October 14 2008 at 18:08
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What?
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Run Home Slow
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 21:38 |
Syd Barrett make you feel something... that's all... yes he was there in the psychedelic debut or rock... like Jefferson Airplane, The Doors, Hendrix, Gong, Soft Machine... i think PATGOD is a pretty good psychedelic album for that time... the best i think  for a first album... Not a prog album like King crimson two years later. but in 67 that was pretty unique... just listen to the Let's All Make Love In London CD or just the 2 songs out of it of Pink Floyd... Interstellar Overdrive and Nick's boogie... that was made before the Piper album in 66... they were there like Jefferson, Soft Machine and Hendrix and Gong... they make the start of it all... he was not a genius but he is a legend. His 2 solo albums are so touching, i can feel him when he sings, i got the goosebups... it's so sad that he left so soon... just like Jimi, Buckley or even Zappa that stay longer. Maybe i'm a bike lover because of him cheers!
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jammun
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 22:35 |
I think a lot of it is the "what could have been" factor. A lot of talent suddenly lost, for no reason. And we never as listeners got to hear what could have been. At least with Hendrix there's a compelling catalog left behind.
Another similar casualty of the era was Peter Green. If you give a close listen to FM's Then Play On (not to mention some of the earlier 'hits' Albatross and Black Magic Woman), there is just unlimited potential oozing out of those grooves. And then it was all gone, not due to death, but due to the irreparably damaged psyche.
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crimson87
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 22:39 |
febus wrote:
He was not even of Saucerful of secrets PF's second album as a full member.He contributed to one song, the last one.
I think it's more the mystery surrounding his departure , the LSD, the supposed craziness and hallucinations that make him some kind of ''hero''.
Yes he has composed a few great songs, but mostly pop nuggets with a very psychedelic feel.
At the same time, Kevin Ayers, Robert Wyatt, D.Allen and M. Ratledge did the same kind of music but the musical press didn't give them as much attention than to SYD whose life was more tempting to use to create the ''legends'' |
Why could I see that one coming?
Years before I got into progressive music , I used to believe that The Soft Machine had the legendary status same as The Beatles . Pink Floyd , and The Rolling Stones. I mean , I watched the TV specials about the history of rock and the softs were always wiewed as a key band in the late 60´s.
Probably their popularity decreased as their jazziness increased.
We may never know the cause of why Syd is a legend because we could also ask: What would have happened if Robert Wyatt died instead of being in a wheelchair? Would he be a legend due to an early death?
The main reason about Syd's popularity is his mystery around his person , and yes he could not be a genius but he had something.
Anyway Jim Morrison is much more overrated to me , or probably I just hate Val Kilmer , I'll never know.
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Drew
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Posted: October 14 2008 at 22:44 |
A legend?
Didn't know he was............
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aprusso
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Posted: October 15 2008 at 01:58 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
I hear you. I never did get it myself. I think it was more like 1 & ½ Pink Floyd albums. I think it was because he tripped out of his head onLSD which was a cool thing back in the sixties. Timothy Leary culture and all that. Had a high school teacher who was residue from the sixties and he used to actually tell us how hip it was to trip out back then and almost lose your head. |
That's exactly it. If you don't like psychedelic music, and you don't like to play with your brain, you can't like Syd Barrett. Thta's why for instance I can't listen to "tech-doom" bands and even I laugh at them. Question of sensibilities.
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el dingo
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Posted: October 15 2008 at 03:32 |
It might be worth grabbing a copy of Nick Mason's Inside Out, which gives as much insight into Syd as I think we'll ever get. I didn't even know 'Syd' was a nickname til I read the book.
There are two telling photographs in the book that maybe point us in a certain direction. One is of the short-lived five-man Floyd with Syd almost in the background. You can feel what was coming - his 'random precision' was getting too much for the others and Gilmour, unlike Barrett, was there to stay. The other is of a shaven-headed Syd looking terrible when, according to Mason - who should know - he wandered unannounced into a 70s Floyd recording session, hung around for ages and wandered off again - all with barely a word.
Both solo albums - Barrett and The Madcap Laughs - are available via GoMusic. There are several alternative versions of tracks on the Barrett album included within. This site also has some interesting early Floyd alternative versions such as Interstellar and Astronomy, plus early singles with Syd including Candy and a Current Bun.
There are at least two full-length vid clips of Interstellar available on either MusicBanter or MySpace - can't remember which. The quality's not too bad considering and the improvisation is interesting to say the least.
Maybe it's 'cos I'm a writer and NOT a musician, but while I love Piper I've found the solo stuff quite hard to get into. Probably my fault and not Syd's.
Is Syd a legend? As a psychedelic icon with more than a hint of mystery, YES. As a musician - I dunno.
I'll sign off with a quote from Nick Mason about Dave Gilmour: DAVE COULD PLAY 'SYD GUITAR' BETTER THAN SYD COULD.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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fuxi
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Posted: October 15 2008 at 03:57 |
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Traditionally, in British rock criticism, Barrett has been revered because he was 'a raver', a 'seer of visions',
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fuxi
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Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:04 |
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Traditionally, in British rock criticism, Barrett has been revered because he was 'a raver', a 'seer of visions', 'caught on the crossline of childhood and stardom'. The naieve and childlike visions of his early songs remind some people of fairy-tales and romantic poets. At the same time, Barrett was a wacky but intrepid experimenter with sound. PIPER may have its embarrassing moments, but at its very weirdest (especially on OVERDRIVE and POWER TOC H) it still sounds visionary. Post-Barrett Floyd can be wonderfully dreamy and/or majestic. But Barrett-era Floyd is meant to 'blow your mind'.
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el dingo
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Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:11 |
fuxi wrote:
But Barrett-era Floyd is meant to 'blow your mind'. |
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Syd Barrett... what makes him a legend?
