poslednijat_colobar wrote: I don't like neoprog.This is not my type of subgenre.The sound is not clear enough and the music is strange.I prefer more classic sound!

That's a, shall I say, interesting way to put it. I, too, prefer the "classic sound", but the way I percieve things, the sound tends to be clearer and the music not strange enough in neoprog!

victor77 wrote: stonebeard wrote: Avant-prog and zeuhl are the only genres that progress anything. You're all living delusions.   I don´t really agree with it. Eskaton or Runaway Totem aren´t, in my opinion, examples of inventiveness on the zeuhl genre.   I would suggest some records apart from the common bands of the genre, according to the site list    Clepsydra - Fears Deyss - Visions in the Dark Fruitcake - Room for Surprise Gerard - Live in Marseille Quidam - Quidam   Prog rock didn not die in the 80´s, it just changed

Well, I think stonebeard is just kidding... (I suppose )

It's strange, because I feel that Eskaton is one of the most refreshing offerings in the Zeuhl fields. It's much more accesible than most of the Zeuhl bands I know. Along with Pseu and Eider Stellaire are my fav 80s zeuhl bands.

AlexUC wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Bowie made at least three full blown prog albums, "Low", "Heroes" and, most of all, "Lodger". His inclusion is by far not as illogical as you claim it is. And, just to make it clear, I am definitely NOT a fan of Bowie and his music. Yes, completely agree, I think he's OK as a prog related artist, my point is that some people confuse their appealing with his music, and fall in the implication that Bowie (i.e.) is more progressive even than some neo prog or prog metal bands. That's not fair, I think.

The Doctor wrote: AlexUC wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Bowie made at least three full blown prog albums, "Low", "Heroes" and, most of all, "Lodger". His inclusion is by far not as illogical as you claim it is. And, just to make it clear, I am definitely NOT a fan of Bowie and his music. Yes, completely agree, I think he's OK as a prog related artist, my point is that some people confuse their appealing with his music, and fall in the implication that Bowie (i.e.) is more progressive even than some neo prog or prog metal bands. That's not fair, I think.   Bowie is one of my favorite artists, however, I've only viewed him as being on the fringes of prog, and certainly do not consider him as prog as IQ, Marillion, Twelfth Night, Dream Theater, etc.  But his inclusion in PR is logical because of the three albums Friede mentioned and because I think a lot of his music was on the fringes of prog.

It goes back to what was being discussed on the first page of the thread.  A progressive artist/band need not be Prog, and a Prog artist need not be progressive, it also does depend on what is meant by progressive (one is a noun for fairly loose genre classification, and to describe a movement, the other describing advancement, and linked to innovation).  Some say that Neo-Prog is not very innovative, and did not advance Prog music much (which might be thought of as breaking rock conventions).  I don't think of Bowie as Prog (I think he could be described that way regarding output), but I do think of him as a progressive artist (I won't comment on whether I think he advanced music more, or was more innovative, than, say, Marillion).

Personally, I am confident that Bowie was more progressive (adjective) than many Neo-Prog, Prog-Metal bands, as well as a great many from other categories, but that doesn't make him more Prog.

EDIT: This is coming from a guy who would like to see more innovative artists in the archives.  Heck, I want a category for progressive non-rock artists that were very influential to bands/ artists in the archives, and that have a relation to categories here (Coltrane being my particular interest, but also people like Stockhausen and Glass -- problem is, where does it end, and where does it begin temporally?)  It's hard to argue that Coltrane is not a progressive artist, but that doesn't make him Prog (Progressive Rock).  Apologies for any digressions *zips mouth*

EDIT agian *unzips, astonishment ensues*

AlexUC wrote: ... BTW, the Logan recommendation, Marc Ceccotti, is just GREAT . Thanks a lot for this, I'll try to find some material here. I knew a little bit about Edhels, but his solo work seems to be nicer. More bands in this line??

Glad you like it, his earlier work is more in the Neo-Prog vein.  The myspace is his latest album.  His latest album sounds very good to these ears, and quite experimental (like the jazz fusion and spacey electronic qualities).  For people who might have missed it:  http://www.myspace.com/marcceccotti


2008
Sometimes Around Saturn
not rated


Edited by Logan - September 30 2008 at 15:54

HughesJB4 wrote: debrewguy wrote:  What would the slippermen say ?  "Yo, wassup, you need slippers?" Something to that effect anyway. Don't mind me, it's 4:42am right now:P

Not only that, but aren't you upside down?

I'm a little late to this discussion..........

I like a couple bands in the Neo Prog category.  Most I don't like.  What don't I like about Neo Prog?  Hmm.........let's see............um, it doesn't appeal to my taste in music.  How's that?  I think this thread should be a lot shorter

AlexUC wrote: victor77 wrote: stonebeard wrote: Avant-prog and zeuhl are the only genres that progress anything. You're all living delusions.   I don´t really agree with it. Eskaton or Runaway Totem aren´t, in my opinion, examples of inventiveness on the zeuhl genre.   I would suggest some records apart from the common bands of the genre, according to the site list    Clepsydra - Fears Deyss - Visions in the Dark Fruitcake - Room for Surprise Gerard - Live in Marseille Quidam - Quidam   Prog rock didn not die in the 80´s, it just changed Well, I think stonebeard is just kidding... (I suppose ) It's strange, because I feel that Eskaton is one of the most refreshing offerings in the Zeuhl fields. It's much more accesible than most of the Zeuhl bands I know. Along with Pseu and Eider Stellaire are my fav 80s zeuhl bands.

No, I was being serious. Let me rephrase.

Avant-prog and zeuhl are the only genres that are typically capable of progressing anything. You're all living delusions.

Thinking about the kinds of bands we have on this site, then thinking about popular/rock music as a whole, I think it is very silly if not plain ignorant to call 99% of the music on this site progressive.

Being an archiving site, the labels are a necessary evil.  But, they do help at least a little in discovering new bands of a similar ilk to bands that you know and love.  It's certainly not foolproof but it is much better than just listing all of the bands as prog and saying "have at it". 

stonebeard wrote: AlexUC wrote: victor77 wrote: stonebeard wrote: Avant-prog and zeuhl are the only genres that progress anything. You're all living delusions.   I don´t really agree with it. Eskaton or Runaway Totem aren´t, in my opinion, examples of inventiveness on the zeuhl genre.   I would suggest some records apart from the common bands of the genre, according to the site list    Clepsydra - Fears Deyss - Visions in the Dark Fruitcake - Room for Surprise Gerard - Live in Marseille Quidam - Quidam   Prog rock didn not die in the 80´s, it just changed Well, I think stonebeard is just kidding... (I suppose ) It's strange, because I feel that Eskaton is one of the most refreshing offerings in the Zeuhl fields. It's much more accesible than most of the Zeuhl bands I know. Along with Pseu and Eider Stellaire are my fav 80s zeuhl bands. No, I was being serious. Let me rephrase. Avant-prog and zeuhl are the only genres that are typically capable of progressing anything. You're all living delusions. Thinking about the kinds of bands we have on this site, then thinking about popular/rock music as a whole, I think it is very silly if not plain ignorant to call 99% of the music on this site progressive.

Well, now I see

It depends. If you take the word in the purest meaning, I think you're right. However, the meaning of the word has not been taken as literally as you cite (I mean, by the prog community). Take a look at the definition:

adj.

1. Moving forward; advancing.
2. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
3. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.
4. Progressive Of or relating to a Progressive Party: the Progressive platform of 1924.
5. Of or relating to progressive education: a progressive school.
6. Increasing in rate as the taxable amount increases: a progressive income tax.
7. Pathology. Tending to become more severe or wider in scope: progressive paralysis.
8. Grammar. Designating a verb form that expresses an action or condition in progress.

Antonyms: progressive adj Definition: liberal, growing
Antonyms: conservative, moderate

As you could see, under this definition, only 1% percent of the bands archived here are progressive. For example, a band like The Flower Kings would not be progressive (see the antonyms), opposite as we all know, and most of the conservative neo prog and prog metal bands would not be progressive. Incorrect as you can see. When you apply the term to rock it changes the meaning a little bit.

However, all of this is completely relative, you can take the meaning of the word as you want (the commonly accepted or the pure one). If you think TFK is not progressive, nobody has a valid argument to beat that, so, I'm wasting my time saying all of this

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 02 2008 at 19:15