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Ivan_Melgar_M 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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 Posted: September 27 2008 at 15:39 |
Yep Logan, 10 pages for each Prog Related band and constant attacks for real Prog bands as the Neo Prog ones.
I see a contradiction.
Iván
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36940
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Posted: September 27 2008 at 15:52 |
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It certainly can be problematic, at the least, when people passionately and emphatically support bands for inclusion that are neither that progressive nor Prog while denouncing Neo-Prog for its lack of progressiveness.
I do think in quite a few cases that people support bands that are not Prog or progressive because they have a soft-spot for them (in some cases because they grew up with them.... That would be like me supporting Gary Numan for Prog-Related).
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: September 27 2008 at 16:07 |
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I think it depends a bit on how you define "progressive". My problem with neo-prog is that it hardly ever bites, even when it rocks. It is simply way too harmonic for my taste; where are the occasional dissonances that make the music interesting? You don't have to be Avant / RIO to include the occasional dissonances. And early prog knew that, even bands like Gentle Giant. This is also the reason why I think the best Genesis album ever was "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"; here they finally do what they should have done more often, in my opinion.
I have a similar problem with prog metal, by the way. Loud and fast, but toothless barks most of the time. That's why I love a band like The Red Masque, who are also a newer band but definitely not neo; they are not afraid of dissonances at all.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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keiser willhelm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1697
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Posted: September 27 2008 at 17:40 |
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I basically agree with bald jean on this one. The music lacks that power, like its too sickly sweet to really be filling. i also think it can get a little over dramatic and predictable in the melodies and general composition. but thats me and my taste and my opinion. i see how people could like them and i dont see how they arent progressive.
i also like the comment about modern indie and 80's/90's neo prog. def. a step above just prog 'related' but not quite as progressive as yes or king crimson.
but who is?
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: September 27 2008 at 20:16 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The funny thing is that people talk about the lack of progressiveness of Neo Prog bands.....But they start and join 10 pages threads about barely Prog Related bands.
They dismiss Marillion and Pendragon, but want Toto, Funkadelic and Boston here.
This could be considered a paradox, but the real thing is that people want to add bands they like despite the genre, they like Boston and swear is the most Prog band since King Crimson, but because they don't like Marillion, they say the Bee Gees are more Prog. 
And some of this same people dare to call us close minded because we don't agree with Steely Dan, but they bash Pendragon. 
Iván |
Well, that´s easy. Although not prog Funkadelic and to lesser extend Toto and Boston brought something new, even though not prog. New and Neo prog seem almost oxymorons to my ears
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: September 27 2008 at 23:35 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yep Logan, 10 pages for each Prog Related band and constant attacks for real Prog bands as the Neo Prog ones.
I see a contradiction.
Iván |
Yes , that's soooo damn right.Lately the site has caught an AOR fever whose synthoms are loads of Steely Dan, Boston , Journey etc. It's like as if the Americans wanna prove that they can be prog also.Because lets be honest , as much FZ and Miles you have.Progressive rock its british.
Now , to the neo prog issue.I see this genre as "cute little harmless prog" Why can't you see it that way also?
If neo prog is not progressive then what's left to Prog Metal????No matter how much Aeyron and Pain of Salvation I hear I won't be convinced that they are progressive.They are ambitious , ultra over the top and SOOOOOOOO CHEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!! They make look Rick Wakeman as a country artist.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 01:33 |
progmetalhead wrote:
You would miss out on some fabulous music and some classic albums over the years if your disregarded Neo IMHO. |
Such as?
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 04:34 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yep Logan, 10 pages for each Prog Related band and constant attacks for real Prog bands as the Neo Prog ones.
I see a contradiction.
Iván |
It certainly would be if it were the SAME people championing non-prog and prog-related bands as those attacking Neo-Prog. Are they really the same people?
Edited by russellk - September 28 2008 at 04:35
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 04:37 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
progmetalhead wrote:
You would miss out on some fabulous music and some classic albums over the years if your disregarded Neo IMHO. |
Such as? |
MARILLION's 'Misplaced Childhood'.
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 04:40 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I think it depends a bit on how you define "progressive". My problem with neo-prog is that it hardly ever bites, even when it rocks. It is simply way too harmonic for my taste; where are the occasional dissonances that make the music interesting? You don't have to be Avant / RIO to include the occasional dissonances. And early prog knew that, even bands like Gentle Giant. This is also the reason why I think the best Genesis album ever was "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"; here they finally do what they should have done more often, in my opinion.
I have a similar problem with prog metal, by the way. Loud and fast, but toothless barks most of the time. That's why I love a band like The Red Masque, who are also a newer band but definitely not neo; they are not afraid of dissonances at all.
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That may well be so (though to my mind it's debatable - FISH-era MARILLION has plenty of bite, especially in the lyrics) but that doesn't mean Neo-Prog is not thoroughly progressive. Otherwise we'd have to re-evaluate RENAISSANCE and HARMONIUM, for starters.
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apps79
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 15 2007
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 1551
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 05:32 |
If you don't mind here's a little story that might help you all...
When I was a teenager I used to listen mainly to a lot of heavy metal and classic rock bands.One day I bought a metal magazine.Under its whole package there was a free CD icluding about 20 tracks with the whole history of rock,starting from the 60's and how rock developed into heavy metal in the years to come...Among those tracks it was the ''Script for a jester's tear'' by MARILLION...I was shocked,words cant describe what I felt while listening to it...It was much more difficult structured,much more emotional,much more atmospheric and much darker than everything I had heard before...And that's the reason that today I own over a thousand albums of progressive rock...Isn't that a good reason to call this genre progressive...I think it is...
Yes,Neo compared to the 70's giants is not that difficult music...But compared to other bands of alternative,classic,grunge or I don't know what kind of rock this is much more creative,complex and progressive...And do not forget that the roots of this music are coming from the 70's progressive rock...
Take care all of you...by someone who got into prog because of MARILLION,IQ and ARENA...
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fusionfreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 23 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 1317
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 05:47 |
I'm not a neo prog expert.I just have 2 neo prog cds in my prog collection(I received them last week):IQ'sTales from lush attic and Pallas'sDreams of men.To me 1st one is Genesis like and very moving and the second,while not overtly complex and experimental,is fun to play.I don't think I will look
for many Neo works but I certainly will buy things from IQ,Marillion,Pallas or Abraxas.It is true that this
genre seems to be easier but one can't go against the fact that true progressive rock flows in its veins and
that 70's progressive greats such as Yes,Genesis or KC grew on people like Peter Nicholls,Martin Orford or Pete Trewavas.And there is excellent musicianship.
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I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from
crimson king
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2081
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 07:10 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
progmetalhead wrote:
You would miss out on some fabulous music and some classic albums over the years if your disregarded Neo IMHO. |
Such as? |
 I guess that depends on whether your request is to broaden your musical horizons or to flame my choices! 
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 07:38 |
I believe that Neo Prog is great introductory prog for those who want to sample prog but not freak out or be turned off, however some people are happy to take the plunge into King Crimson, Magma and Gentle Giant it really all depends on personality types I think. I have found the odd complex neo prog band so I`m not saying that they are all simple but as a rule they tend to be more accessable probably because they tend to find the good notes straight away and and dont fiddle f@rt around as much noodling all day ... well I'm off now going to listen to the Flower Kings 
Edited by Yorkie X - September 28 2008 at 07:49
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20206
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 07:54 |
quite right Steve....
well, here's 15 of my favourite Neo-Prog albums (one from each band, and in no particular order)...make of them what you will:
Marillion: Season's End
Arena: Pepper's Ghost
IQ: Ever
Pallas: Beat The Drum
Everon: Bridge
Jadis: More Than Meets The Eye
Twelfth Night: Fact And Fiction
Pendragon: Masquerade Overture
Clepsydra: Fears
Janison Edge: The Services Of Mary Goode
Iluvatar: Children
Collage: Moonshine
Primitive Instinct: Floating Tangibility
Grey Lady Down: Forces
Satellite: The Street Between Sunrise & Sunset
enjoy....
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2081
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 09:05 |
That's a mighty fine selection J. 
I would add Galahad's "Year Zero" to that list.
Add it to your must buy list if you don't have it. |
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 09:39 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
progmetalhead wrote:
You would miss out on some fabulous music and some classic albums over the years if your disregarded Neo IMHO. |
Such as? |
Marillion: Brave Marbles Misplaced Childhood Pendragon: Not Of This World Masquerade Overture The World Window Of Life IQ: Subterranea Dark Matter The Seventh House Arena: The Visitor Immortal? Contagion Fish: Vigil In The Wildnerness Of Mirrors 13th Star Sylvan: Posthumous Silence Collage: Moonshine Just to name a few. E
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20206
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 09:59 |
^^^ I just knew some quality would be brought to this thread by the letter 'E'.... 
and thanks Steve...I might just do that.... |
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 12:06 |
I'm curious what you will say, I haven't heard any full neo albums so there's no much I can criticize you on other than disliking what I've heard of the genre.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: September 28 2008 at 12:14 |
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^ I really like the Seventh House by IQ. It's one of their least-mentioned, but I think it's solid and reveals more than you originally overlook. Probably not a "classic," but it's still really good. And the Masquerade Overture by Pendragon is another good one.
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Neo prog bands, is there a real problem?
