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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Metallica: Progressiveness Distribution
    Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:44
Have a look at yet another fascinating chart. Higher levels indicate prog, levels between 4 and just below 6 indicate prog-related. At least that's how it's done at PF, you can also think of the chart as the upper half = prog, the lower half = non-prog.



For comparison, here's the chart for Dream Theater:

And for Genesis:


But this time it's different: this chart is fully dynamic. You can help me get it right by rating/taging Metallica albums at PF ... the chart will automatically update itself. Smile


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 11 2008 at 06:59
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 19:02
I don't agree with the numbers. Mine would be like this. (assuming that x>5.0 indicates progressiveness as you said Mike):
 
Kill 'Em All - 3.5
 
Ride The Lightning - 5.5
 
Master of Puppets - 7.5
 
And Justice for All - 8.5
 
Metallica - 1.5 (not qualifying the album, but its progressiveness)
 
Load - 0
 
Re-Load - 0
 
St. Anger -    -1  LOL 
 
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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 22:31
KEA 3.5
RTL 6.5
MoP 8
AJFA 9
Load 0
Re-Load 0
 
And I'll go on better than The T
St Anger -2LOL
 
Death Magnetic- not sure yet, but the name is bad enough to warrant a score no bigger than 2LOL
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 02:46
Well ... since you both have PF accounts, I would be glad if you rated/tagged the albums there. That's the only way to influence my chart.Big%20smile

You can easily rate/tag the albums from the discography page:
http://progfreak.com/Metallica,_dbe,artists,_auto_8057510.xhtml?path=discography
Smile








Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 09 2008 at 03:04
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:04
BTW: 10 on this scale means "the most progressive recording *ever* conceived". Are you sure you would give AJFA 8.5 or 9 on that scale?Wink

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 09 2008 at 03:04
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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:11
Yeah, sorry about that.
 
I was literally laughing while posting at The T's joke, so I went a bit overboard and was feeling overly generous and for some reason that picture of James Hetfields that looks like he has been on a barbeque for a while came to mind and I always imagine him singing in his current voice "TAKE ME OFF THE BARBEQUE.......... WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YEAHHHHHHHHHHH!" everytime I see that pic . Yes,  that Woa Yeah he seems to have over done by about nowLOL
 
Ohhh, that was going off on a tangent reallyEmbarrassed
Some more serious figures here:
 
KEA: 3.5
RTL: 5.5
MoP: 7
AJFA: 7.5
Metallica: 1
Load: 0
Reload:0
St Anger: 0.5
 
Don't know if I can ever be bothered listening to Death Magnetic,
I will if someone gives it to me for free, but I ain't spending my own money on it anytime soon... or ever.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:21
Ok ... but if AJFA is at 7.5, where is Close to the Edge or Foxtrot?
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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:24
Oh crap.. I dunnoLOL
I'll think about it I suppose.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:32
^ sorry, didn't mean to influence you!WinkLOL
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 12:04
Just an update: I increased the number of steps for all tags from 5 to 10.Smile
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 14:42
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Ok ... but if AJFA is at 7.5, where is Close to the Edge or Foxtrot?
 
As I've said before elsewhere, I don't compare the progresiveness of metal with that of prog-rock in the same level.. for me are two different things... So Metallica is very prog in AJFA, but very prog-metal at that... Of course, compared with Genesis it's a 3.5, but compared with prog-metal is a 8.5, or maybe that'sd exaggerated.. let's give it a 7.5.....
 
By the way I'm tagging their albums now in progfreak... Tongue
 
Edit: I'll have to fisish doing this on my laptop.. in a slower computer, progfreak is just... a little bit too slow to work with...Tongue.... Tonight I'll finish those tags and ratings in my laptop.... I'm just beginning to understand your site Mike...Tongue


Edited by The T - September 10 2008 at 14:52
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 15:08
^ I guess that's the challenge ... simply assess the progressiveness on a 0-10 scale, independently of genre. I agree that there may be a tendency for prog metal to be less progressive than prog rock, but at least for me that doesn't mean that prog metal albums simply get 2 points less or something like that, it's always an album vs. album decision.Smile
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 15:37
Yes guys, but almost 63% of the members who voted in the poll started believe Metallica shouldn't be here.
 
Honestly, talking about "Levels of Progressiveness" make me laugh,
 
Iván
            
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Ricochet View Drop Down
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 15:42
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Yes guys, but almost 63% of the members who voted in the poll started believe Metallica shouldn't be here.
 
Honestly, talking about "Levels of Progressiveness" make me laugh,
 
Iván


Pretty pointless since that happened at least to The Who a dozen times, no? The voting, I mean.

And, besides, also pretty pointless since Metallica's case is currently kept alive by at least four big members, out of which one said "he won't die if (till?) Metallica don't get added".




Edited by Ricochet - September 10 2008 at 15:42
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 15:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Yes guys, but almost 63% of the members who voted in the poll started believe Metallica shouldn't be here.
 
Honestly, talking about "Levels of Progressiveness" make me laugh,
 
Iván


Wouldn't you agree that some albums are more progressive than others?

There's not much math or numerics about the chart or my tags ... simply see them as sliders which you can either put at 0 (not progressive), 10 (the most progressive thing that you've ever encountered) or somewhere in between.Smile
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:00
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Yes guys, but almost 63% of the members who voted in the poll started believe Metallica shouldn't be here.
 
Honestly, talking about "Levels of Progressiveness" make me laugh,
 
Iván


Pretty pointless since that happened at least to The Who a dozen times, no? The voting, I mean.

And, besides, also pretty pointless since Metallica's case is currently kept alive by at least four big members, out of which one said "he won't die if (till?) Metallica don't get added".


 
Check this http://www.progressiveears.com/default.asp?bhcp=1 a whole thread made for laughing about this obsession in PA about charts, levels, and percentages.
 
Now The Who.....Yes, the band was added, but still some of us believe it's wrong,. the majority of  people who voted believe it's wrong, being added doesn't mean it's ok.
 
Now, talking about a band having 3.78% of Progressivenes sounds wrong to me, how in hell can you talk in percentage terms about a characteristic of music?
 
Iván
 
EDIT: No I don't believe a band is MORE Progressive than other, a band is Prog, Prog Related or not Prog, that's all.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2008 at 16:06
            
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Points: 66266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:07
Iván

A good place to start would be your evaluation of Nemesis in the Neo Thread in the collab zone.  Although you didn't use percentages, you did evaluate each songs as being very progressive, somewhat progressive, and not progressive at all.  These can be translated into percentages, but these percentages would be based on your beliefs and each individual would have their own belief as to what these percentages are.  That is unless someone is ambitious enough to count all of the notes in each song, and all of the notes that are progressive (or at least that exist during what is considered a progressive part of a song) and then a percentage could most definitely be applied that way..

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:07
^ sorry, but both The Who and criticism of numbers and statistics is off topic ... maybe you could continue those discussions in other threads?Embarrassed
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:11
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Now, talking about a band having 3.78% of Progressivenes sounds wrong to me, how in hell can you talk in percentage terms about a characteristic of music?
 


Nobody's trying to be that precise, Iván ... you're deliberately exaggerating things in order to make them look bad. If it makes you happy then I'll gladly optimize that chart so that its vertical scale doesn't contain fractions ... Wink
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:11
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Iván

A good place to start would be your evaluation of Nemesis in the Neo Thread in the collab zone.  Although you didn't use percentages, you did evaluate each songs as being very progressive, somewhat progressive, and not progressive at all.  These can be translated into percentages, but these percentages would be based on your beliefs and each individual would have their own belief as to what these percentages are.  That is unless someone is ambitious enough to count all of the notes in each song, and all of the notes that are progressive (or at least that exist during what is considered a progressive part of a song) and then a percentage could most definitely be applied that way..

 
You can talk of genres, you can talk about blends,  you can talk about a song having influence of different genres....But translate it to numbers?
 
Sorry but I believe it takes the beauty out of music.
 
Mike wrote:
Quote Nobody's trying to be that precise, Iván ... you're deliberately exaggerating things in order to make them look bad. If it makes you happy then I'll gladly optimize that chart so that its vertical scale doesn't contain fractions ... Wink
 
Of course I'm exagerating, it's a literary figure to point the futile of this chart IMO.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2008 at 16:14
            
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