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Topic ClosedElectric Cars

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Poll Question: Would you ever consider buying one?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [81.82%]
4 [18.18%]
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Pnoom! View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2008 at 21:21
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:

Where do we store the waste?  We still don't have a solution to this problem.


We have a solution - underground storage.  It may not be one that you approve of but it is a solution nonetheless.


Can you explain this further (this is curiosity, I'm sure you know more about it than I do)?

Also, just note that I won't believe a word you say if it seems too one-sided.  I'm looking for an objective analysis that looks at both costs and benefits.  You can of course point out why you feel the potential costs are insignificant but I at least want you to deal them.

Thanks in advance. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2008 at 21:37
Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:

Where do we store the waste?  We still don't have a solution to this problem.


We have a solution - underground storage.  It may not be one that you approve of but it is a solution nonetheless.


Can you explain this further (this is curiosity, I'm sure you know more about it than I do)?

Also, just note that I won't believe a word you say if it seems too one-sided.  I'm looking for an objective analysis that looks at both costs and benefits.  You can of course point out why you feel the potential costs are insignificant but I at least want you to deal them.

Thanks in advance. Smile


Here's a small snippet I found that seems reasonably objective:

http://library.thinkquest.org/17940/texts/nuclear_waste_storage/nuclear_waste_storage.html

" There are many ideas about what to do with nuclear waste. The low-level (not extremely radioactive) waste can often be buried near the surface of the earth. It is not very dangerous and usually will have lost most of its radioactivity in a couple hundred years. The high-level waste, comprised mostly of spent fuel rods, is harder to get rid of. There are still plans for its disposal, however. Some of these include burying the waste under the ocean floor, storing it underground, and shooting it into space. The most promising option so far is burying the waste in the ground. This is called "deep geological disposal". Because a spent fuel rod contains material that takes thousands of years to become stable (and non-radioactive), it must be contained for a very long time. If it is not contained, it could come in contact with human population centers and wildlife, posing a great danger to them. Therefore, the waste must be sealed up tightly. Also, if the waste is being stored underground, it must be stored in an area where there is little groundwater flowing through. If ground water does flow through a waste storage site, it could erode the containment canisters and carry waste away into the environment. Additionally, a disposal site must be found with little geological activity. We don't want to put a waste disposal site on top of a fault line, where 1000 years in the future an earthquake will occur, releasing the buried waste into the environment.

The waste will probably be encapsulated in large casks designed to withstand corrosion, impacts, radiation, and temperature extremes. Special casks will also have to be used to transfer fuel rods from their holding pools and dry storage areas next to the reactor to the permanent geological storage site"

So the pro is that with a suitable location and proper containment, the low- and high-level waste can be "tucked away" and won't impact the environment - but the con, in the case of Yucca Mountain, the proposed main nuclear waste site in Nevada, you have to consider earthquakes, erosion, and other natural forces - the problem is the time scale (i.e. half-life) associated with the waste is so long, it's almost impossible to predict what might happen that could break containment and lead to environmental disasters - if the radioactive material got into groundwater, etc.

There's also always the issue that a big nuclear waste dump doesn't top most people's list of something they want in their area.

Also try the following, I know it's wikipedia so at worst perhaps we sacrifice some accuracy but gain an objective description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste#Long_term_management_of_waste

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Pnoom! View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2008 at 21:40
Alright, thanks.  I'll read those later this evening.
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2008 at 21:45
Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:

Alright, thanks.  I'll read those later this evening.


No problem.  Just re-read your post and you asked about costs - I don't think the costs are insignificant, so chalk that up as another point against the long-term storage, and probably nuclear in general.  France has spent what I'm sure is considerable sums of their GDP on their nuclear power infrastructure, but from all accounts they appear to be making it work.  They are the world's largest exporter of electric power.
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Pnoom! View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2008 at 22:04
Again, thanks.

I need to be more knowledgeable about political issues... I just don't have the time (something about trying to spam fifty internet forums at the same time...)


EDIT: oh and I probably meant costs simply as cons, but indeed literal cost can be a con, as you mentioned


Edited by Pnoom! - August 08 2008 at 22:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2008 at 22:24
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:

In other words, I vote public transportation, carpooling, riding a bike/walking, and alternative fuels that aren't ethanol (hydrogen hopefully if it works and doesn't compromise limited water resources - I haven't researched the issue enough to know).


Hydrogen doesn't seem much better than electric - you still have to produce it, so you still require a primary energy source.

What's wrong with electric cars if the primary electric generation source is green (solar/wind/etc.), and if the storage capacity can be made to support reasonable single charge mileage?
Hydrogen is potentially the ideal "storage" device for both eco-friendly and eco-unfriendly electricity.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 05:51
Regarding nuclear waste, I've read somewhere about the possibility of developing a technique which enables us to use nuclear waste as nuclear fuel. I don't think the development has come very far yet, though.

There's also the whole fusion thing. Fusion reactors will be much, much more effective than current fission reactors and also leave less and/or less dangerous waste, if I'm not mistaken (was a while since I read up on this stuff).

I don't think we should rule out nuclear technology just yet. Instead, we ought to continue researching new possibilities within this field and improving the technology.

Of course I'm also very positive to completely green energy sources such as solar and wind power, and wave power.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 11:23
I vote no. I'm not considering getting a car, I haven't the need for a car, why should I buy an electric one? If it ever gets so far, I'll jump in the electric bus.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 18:35
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


What Nuclear Renaissance?<h1>

Oh, yes The Nation. Quite the reliable source!

You probably shouldn't cite the left wing version of NRO or Human Events if you want your position to be taken seriously.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2008 at 10:30
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


What Nuclear Renaissance?<h1>

Oh, yes The Nation. Quite the reliable source!

You probably shouldn't cite the left wing version of NRO or Human Events if you want your position to be taken seriously.


Is this an admission that the mainstream media isn't actually left wing or is the true left wing media so left it's right? Wink
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2008 at 15:34
i say no for right now. the energy id be charging that car up with will be produced from coal and other fossil fuel plants. whats the difference?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2008 at 21:36
Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

i say no for right now. the energy id be charging that car up with will be produced from coal and other fossil fuel plants. whats the difference?

The difference is in renewable resources, things which don't leave dangerous and toxic waste you have to deal with, and to be fair,that's just about everything..  Though, interestingly enough, as global warming accelerates, new places are opening up for oil exploitation...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2008 at 21:41
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

i say no for right now. the energy id be charging that car up with will be produced from coal and other fossil fuel plants. whats the difference?

The difference is in renewable resources, things which don't leave dangerous and toxic waste you have to deal with, and to be fair,that's just about everything..  Though, interestingly enough, as global warming accelerates, new places are opening up for oil exploitation...
 
" Plus ca change , plus c'est la meme chose" = same old, same old CryEmbarrassedShocked
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2008 at 01:13
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


What Nuclear Renaissance?<h1>

Oh, yes The Nation. Quite the reliable source!

You probably shouldn't cite the left wing version of NRO or Human Events if you want your position to be taken seriously.

Is this an admission that the mainstream media isn't actually left wing or is the true left wing media so left it's right? Wink
No, I'm saying that all of those magazines are so extreme that they should not be taken seriously. I get names mixed up, though, so I may have been thinking of someone else.
 
However, you are still wrong. The '70s attitude and rampant NIMBYism that is holding it up in a large part enrages me to no end. Financially, it still makes more sense at this time than most "green" energy until that technology becomes more advanced. Of course, there were some promising nuclear advancements on the horizon that Congress helpfully shut down that may have made this situation easier. Apparently, they don't want there to be superior ways to process nuclear waste. Oh well.
 
I don't think the media has a significant left-wing bias, though. Their bias is more on the side of being completely retarded. NPR is the only American media outlet that I can tolerate.


Edited by Henry Plainview - August 12 2008 at 01:14
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2008 at 10:16
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

I don't think the media has a significant left-wing bias, though. Their bias is more on the side of being completely retarded.


LOL  Agree, pretty much all television news is unwatchable IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2008 at 21:35
you might want to catch the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2008 at 10:14
Heard about that one.  Of course no doubt more liberal propaganda. Wink
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2008 at 20:43
no doubt

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 20:56
EVERYBODY: watch the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car". Very informative.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2008 at 06:32
Also remember not to wizz on the electric fence.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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