The "Metallica for Prog Related" Poll - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577

Posted: August 19 2008 at 11:56

The other Poll are In-Sane??

I have made my vote by the way

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:03

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Of course. This is why I'm simply gathering/presenting opinions here. The admin team and M@x can look at them and *maybe* change their opinion - it's up to them.

Sorry Mike, this IMO has already crossed the line, when YOU don't want a band like Avantasia, you make a scandal, you threatened with leaving, you say you don't want your name in the same site as the Admistrators.

But when you want a band you change thepolls and are manipulating the opinion with a POLL THAT SAYS NOTHING EXCEPT THAT SOMNE PEOPLE BELIEVE METALLICA IS MORE RELATEDTO PROG THA IRON MAIDEN

Isn't that what I just said?

Then Mike...This is manipulation, if somebody did the same trying you to add a band, you would resign (again)

Can't you see that the other poll had mixed votes? Part of the votes were against Metallica being added as prog metal.

Well, it's logical...You are the one that believes Metallica is not Ptog Metal.

I believe Prog Archives has a couple of bruises but haven't harmed us yet, and you said worst things about the site Mike each time you don't agree with a band.

But this doesn't mean we should have more bruises.

I respect your opinion. But this poll shows that there are many who support mine ... which isn't exactly the opposite, since I said "at least as prog-related".

This poll means nothing Mike and you know it, If I made a poll asking if Metallica is more related than the Bee Gees, I'm sure Metallica would win and mean nothing.

If you aask the same people, probably most will say Iron Maiden doesn't believe to be here neither.

BT: Never said that Iron Maiden was a mistake Mike, read my posts

I supported Iron Maiden, I believe Iron Maiden is far more related than Metallica, and my opinion is supported by the persons in charge of this additions.

And then said:

I don't ignore consistency, but even if Iron Maiden is a mistake...Two mistakes don't make a correct answer in reality, you just make the problem worst.

Clearly saaid that Iron Maiden COULD be a mistake

This poll shows the opposite. You may complain about the comparison with Iron Maiden ... but Metallica's own merits are the basis for making the comparison in the first place.

People can simply compare the most progressive songs of Metallica with the most progressive songs of Iron Maiden. In music you're always making comparisons ... you always need points of reference.

I don't believe Metallica has a proggier song than Ryme of the Ancient Mariner or a proggier album than Seventh Son of a Seventh Son.

Even if you chose Dream Theater as a point of reference, you could see the connection (as Certif1ed pointed out a number of times).

Certified has his opinion, I respect his knowledge, but I (as the vast majority here), don't agree with him.

IMHO you can always ask.

But not create poll after polll to take support from the position of another team

If people were insisting in polls about how Avantasia should be in Prog Metal, you would had already made a scandal.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 19 2008 at 14:55

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21199

Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:26

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Of course. This is why I'm simply gathering/presenting opinions here. The admin team and M@x can look at them and *maybe* change their opinion - it's up to them.

Sorry Mike, this IMO has already croissed the line, when YOU don't want a band like SAvantasia, you make a scandal, ypou threated with leaving, you say you don't want your name in the same site as the Adnibnistrators.

All I asked for was to remove the label of "prog metal specialist" ... I didn't threaten to leave. Sorry, but when I made the request I didn't expect the whole thing to become a scandal.

But when you want a band you change thepolls and are manipulating the opinion with a POLL THAT SAYA NOTHING EXCEPT THAT SOMNE PEOPLE BELIEVE METALLICA IS MORE RELATEDTO PROG THA IRON MAIDEN

I'm not manipulating anything. I simply made a poll with a very clear question. What people make of the results is up to them ... I don't expect Metallica to be accepted because of it, although I admit that I think that it will eventually happen.

Isn't that what I just said?

Then Mike...This is manipulation, if somebody did the same trying you to add a band, you would resign (again)

Really, I said nothing about resigning.

Can't you see that the other poll had mixed votes? Part of the votes were against Metallica being added as prog metal.

Well, it's logical...You are the one that believes Metallica is not Ptog Metal.

Then it is also logical for me to create this thread ... where's the problem?

I believe Prog Archives has acouple of bruises but haven't harmed us yet, and you said worst things about the site Mike each time you don't agree with a band.

But this doesn't mean we should have more bruises.

That's absolutely not true. Metallica are a rare exception ... I got very passionate about them back when Iron Maiden were added, and a few days ago when Avantasia were accepted - as the second prog related metal band in the archives. I react this strongly simply because I feel that the decision whether to add Metallica or not is very important.

I respect your opinion. But this poll shows that there are many who support mine ... which isn't exactly the opposite, since I said "at least as prog-related".

This poll means nothing Mike and you know it, If I made a poll asking if Metallica is more related than the Bee Gees, I'm sure Metallica would win and mean nothing.

It would mean something if the Bee Gees were added to the archives.

If you aask the same people, probably most will say Iron Maiden doesn't believe to be here neither.

But they are here. That means something.

BT: Never said that Iron Maiden was a mistake Mike, read my posts

Then why can't you accept that many think that Metallica are at least as much related to prog as Iron Maiden? That's all this poll is about.

I supported Iron Maiden, I believe Iron Maiden is far more related than Metallica, and my opinion is supported by the persons in charge of this additions.

And then said:

I don't ignore consistency, but even if Iron Maiden is a mistake...Two mistakes don't make a correct answer in reality, you just make the problem worst.

Clearly saaid that Iron Maiden COULD be a mistake

This poll shows the opposite. You may complain about the comparison with Iron Maiden ... but Metallica's own merits are the basis for making the comparison in the first place.

The administrators, the owners and the majority of the voters disagree with you, only 5 people more believe Metallica is slightly Prog Related than Maiden, but not all who vote yes say if any of both bands should be here.

Removing Iron Maiden is not an option ... you said yourself that they belong here (as prog related). Keeping that in mind, if someone votes yes in this poll, we can safely deduce that that person wants Metallica to be added as prog related. Consistency ... we cannot add X but not Y, if there's as much (or more) reason to add Y as there is to add X.

I don't believe Metallica has a proggier song than Ryme of the Ancient Mariner or a proggier album than Seventh Son of a Seventh Son.

Most of Seventh Son (the album) is very straight metal. Rime of the Ancient Mariner is essentially a long track with multiple sections, but each of them are quite simple. Please, listen to Orion, or Master of Puppets (the track), or And Justice for All (the track).

Even if you chose Dream Theater as a point of reference, you could see the connection (as Certif1ed pointed out a number of times).

Certified has his opinion, I respect his knowledge, but I (as the vast majority here), don't agree with him.

Well ... I certainly don't often agree with him, so in the few situations in which we do agree I feel especially encouraged by it.

IMHO you can always ask.

But not create polñl after polll to take support from the position of another team

If people were insisting in polls about how Avantasia should be in Prog Metal, you would had already made a scandal.

Iván

Please - I think this is the first poll related to band additions which I created in months, if not a year. Avantasia ... I have already said that I'm cool with adding them, it's adding them but rejecting Metallica which I have a problem with.

Recently listened to:

tuxon

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502

Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:50

IMO,

Basically Metallica is more progressive than Iron Maiden, Yet Iron Maiden is more prog-related than Metallica.

Metallica doesn't belong in PR because their influence on and from prog is really minor, their music in a way can be considered progressive in it's own right, but that's often the case with leading bands of a new sub-culture/genre, while with Iron Maiden it's in a way the other way around, though limitedly progressive themselves their influence on and from prog rock is more extensive, songs like Rhyme of teh ancient mariner is not progressive, but is very much influenced by progresive rock music and structures. their later phase albums are leanin g towards prog-metal aswell.

well something like that.

I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT

WinterLight View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424

Posted: August 19 2008 at 13:18

There are two kinds of music: good music and bad music. Yes, it's really that simple.

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577

Posted: August 19 2008 at 13:35

WinterLight wrote:

There are two kinds of music: good music and bad music. Yes, it's really that simple.

Quoting FZ more or less: It that music exist, is because someone are hearing!!!

M@X

Forum & Site Admin Group

Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster

Joined: January 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4028

Posted: August 19 2008 at 13:55

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

fandango wrote:

I thought that M@x wasn't keen on the idea of Metallica being added to PA...in which case, isn't this exercise academic??....

Back when Iron Maiden were added, Metallica were rejected. But that doesn't mean that this decision is carved in stone ... and even if they never get added, we can still indulge in this academic exercise ... after all, we're here to discuss music. Big%20smile

I am indeed more open to the addition of METALLICA that I was before , because the PROG RELATED sub-genre is now more understood and better integrated with the site.

The artist listed-in now are totally justified. Having adding METALLICA at the beginning of the PROG RELATED genre would have beed really a bad move. Now I am more keane to the idea.

So.... let's share your vote.

PS: I voted METALLICA less PROG RELATED than IRON MAIDEN ;-)

Prog On !

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21199

Posted: August 19 2008 at 14:08

^ Cool! I agree with what you're saying - it makes much sense to proceed with caution. Smile

Recently listened to:

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21199

Posted: August 19 2008 at 14:10

WinterLight wrote:

There are two kinds of music: good music and bad music. Yes, it's really that simple.

I thought it were Western and Country? Wink

Recently listened to:

Certif1ed

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559

Posted: August 19 2008 at 14:49

tuxon wrote:

IMO,

Metallica doesn't belong in PR because their influence on and from prog is really minor, (...)

Actually, tux, their influence on Prog Metal is very, very major - or possibly modal...

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Certif1ed

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559

Posted: August 19 2008 at 14:50

M@X wrote:

Now I am more keane to the idea.

You're not thinking of adding Keane, are you M@X?

Edited by Certif1ed - August 19 2008 at 14:51

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Jared

Forum Senior Member

Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19313

Posted: August 19 2008 at 14:56

M@X wrote:

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

fandango wrote:

I thought that M@x wasn't keen on the idea of Metallica being added to PA...in which case, isn't this exercise academic??....

Likewise; I accept and respect both your oppinions on the issue...

I was merely seeking clarification...

Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: August 19 2008 at 14:59

Mike wrote:

This poll shows the opposite. You may complain about the comparison with Iron Maiden ... but Metallica's own merits are the basis for making the comparison in the first place.

Not longer Mike, Metallica is loosing here also.

Iván

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577

Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:19

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Mike wrote:

This poll shows the opposite. You may complain about the comparison with Iron Maiden ... but Metallica's own merits are the basis for making the comparison in the first place.

Not longer Mike, Metallica is loosing here also.

Iván

That's right Ivan... i read your post and you think equally about Metallica as i.

Cheers Ivan

WinterLight View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424

Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:21

zafreth wrote:

That's right Ivan... i read your post and you think equally about Metallica as i.

Insofar that neither one of you have evinced anything resembling thought beyond personal prejudice. It amazes me (although I might be naive) that: 1) people refuse to consider certain bands with an open mind, and 2) people wring their hands over such trivial topics.

Edited by WinterLight - August 19 2008 at 15:24

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577

Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:33

WinterLight wrote:

Insofar that neither one of you have evinced anything resembling thought beyond personal prejudice.

WinterLight i have not prejudice about Metallica, in fact i liked those albums until the Black Album that never have listen complete. But i Strong consider Metallica a "Rock band".

It amazes me (although I might be naive) that: 1) people refuse to consider certain bands with an open mind,

Well i ask direct, why to add Metallica to PA, if you can write long and detailed reviews in other metal specialized sites???

and 2) people wring their hands over such trivial topics.

Why not??? this is a friendly forum...

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:39

WinterLight wrote:

zafreth wrote:

That's right Ivan... i read your post and you think equally about Metallica as i.

Seems you haven't read the earlier posts Winter Light.

IMO Metallica is a Thrash Metal band with no Prog eklements, befrore giving my opinion, I took the time to listen the allegedly more Propg albums and found nothing that made me think in Prog.

I don't refuse to consider any band with open mind:

I refuse to see a Prog site that I joined EXCLUSIVELY FOR PROG, slowly turn into a general music site.
I refuse to see people not caring for REAL 100% Prog bands announced and making 5 or 10 pages of barely related bands.
I refuse to see 10 pages of Metallica and barely one page about the probably last King Crimson tour in a Progressive Rock site.
I refuse to see an active musician as Alex Carpani, who recruited with great effort a living legend as Aldo Tagliapetra, offering his collaboration to Prog Archives and nobody caring about because Toto, Boston and Metallica are more important.
I refuse to see the opinion of the adminuistrators and teams to be questioned by people who don't agree with their favorite band being rejected,. not because of quality, but because IT'S NOT PROG.
I refuse to see people not accepting the opinion of the majorities, unless the majority agrees with them.
I refuse to see a band like Metallica, who doesn't want to be considered Prog, being pushed into our throats, despite it's obvious most of the people don't believe they belong here.

If this was a General Rock site, I would accept Metallica, The Bee Gees...Even N'Sync, but no, this is a Progressive Rock site, that some of us have formed since it started, placed a lot of effort on it, expend time that could had been spent with our family or working to gain ore money, but we did and still do it for lave to PROG, not for Metal, Jazz, AOR, Alternative, Singer Songwritter, etc.

BTW: I believe it's more trivial and out of place to create a 10 pages thread about Boston, Metallica or Toto, than place our emphasis in REAL PROG BANDS.

This place is called PROG ARCHIVES....Not Allmusic.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 19 2008 at 16:01

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21199

Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:44

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Mike wrote:

This poll shows the opposite. You may complain about the comparison with Iron Maiden ... but Metallica's own merits are the basis for making the comparison in the first place.

Not longer Mike, Metallica is loosing here also.

Iván

Let's wait a little while longer ... the thread isn't even (EDIT: 48 Wink

) hours old. Smile

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - August 19 2008 at 15:46

Recently listened to:

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577

Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:49

Wow Ivan, that's a really punch in the face!!!!

The T

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493

Posted: August 19 2008 at 16:00

zafreth wrote:

Wow Ivan, that's a really punch in the face!!!!

This is not a contest or a boxing match.

Edited by The T - August 19 2008 at 16:01

Poll Question: Iron Maiden are here - in that light, do Metallica also qualify?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Metallica are at least as prog related as Iron Maiden	17	[44.74%]
Metallica are not as prog related as Iron Maiden	21	[55.26%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted