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Atkingani 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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 Posted: August 13 2008 at 16:01 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ so far the PMT has been avoiding/postponing prog related metal additions ... and for good reasons, at least I used to think. At PA I've learned to expect the unexpected, but I must say I'm really floored by this decision.
BTW: I know all the Avantasia albums - in my opinion they're not only not prog, but also not even prog related. I know that some disagree ... but the same is true for Metallica (there are many supporters and many who oppose it). Only a few days ago I was talking about what can make music prog (or prog related) in the Coldplay thread ... unfortunately Avantasia is one of those bands/projects which use prog elements to embellish their music without actually making it progressive. That such a band is chosen over more worthy additions simply frustrates me.
Well, if we add Avantasia then we should also be prepared to add Iced Earth, Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica or Fairyland.
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I understand... but if the number of new bands (any genre) grows then we should expect a similar increasing in the number of new bands going to related too. Following this reasoning, the day more metal bands will fill the related is inexorable IMO, since the number of new metal bands is astonishing and many cross the boundaries forth and back in the progressive realm.
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Guigo
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: August 13 2008 at 16:04 |
I have no comment based on this band's music as I had never heard of them until this morning. However, I heard of them while reading the CD/DVD reviews in the current edition of Progression, the quarterly progressive rock journal, which is my external source of prog rock news outside of this site. I believe that they did label them as hard rock/progressive power metal. The review did make it sound quite interesting with the list of other singers who participated on the album. I know that that isn't much more helpful than the above comments dismissing them because of the album cover but I thought that I would share that little tidbit.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: August 13 2008 at 17:09 |
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^ Listen to Scarecrow ... it was released in January, and many people will undoubtedly compare it to the new Ayreon album (01011001) which was even released in the same week. There are obvious similarities - they're both concept albums, they both feature an extensive list of singers, Jorn Lande sings on both albums. Still, I think that it's not even prog related. In fact, I think that those two albums are a perfect example for the difference between truly prog/progressive music and "normal" mainstream/pop music which has been enhanced with prog elements. I don't have any problem with it, I enjoy listening to Scarecrow and could even imagine them being added as prog related - but not under the circumstances that we have here, with many much more deserving additions being ignored or ultimately rejected.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: August 13 2008 at 17:22 |
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Scarecrow was the album that they reviewed. They gave it pretty high marks too if I remember correctly. I think that overall it got 14 1/2 out of 16 stars. I have only heard one Edguy album so I don't have much of a reference point, but the idea that Jorn Lande, Kai Hansen, and Alice Cooper all contributed kind of intrigues me. I just might have to give it a shot.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 13 2008 at 17:37 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ Is there any explanation why this band is cleared for addition and other, more deserving metal bands for prog related are not? So far Iron Maiden are the only prog-related metal band in the archives ... now it's Iron Maiden and Avantasia. Am I the only one who can't see any logic behind it?
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honestly.. .I don't see it ...at all. The next prog metal related could have.. and should have been one who was significant... isn't that what PR is at heart really about. I could flood the admin team with related artists for example in the Italian prog field.... and haven't with exception of very important and distinctive artists that belonged here for historical and musical context. Agree with you Mike.. this makes no sense.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 14 2008 at 01:23 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ so far the PMT has been avoiding/postponing prog related metal additions ... and for good reasons, at least I used to think. At PA I've learned to expect the unexpected, but I must say I'm really floored by this decision.
Why? There are even less prog bands here... And the admin team has reached that decision. As much as I respect the Admin team's decision to reject bands i consider should be here, I also will respect their decision to include bands here.
BTW: I know all the Avantasia albums - in my opinion they're not only not prog, but also not even prog related. Stretching it a little, they could be prog-RELATED.... In the end, they write operatic-power-metal.. One can see (I CAN, at least) how the Admin team reached such a decision. I know that some disagree ... but the same is true for Metallica (there are many supporters and many who oppose it). And I decided to shut up and respect the admin's and MAx decisions to not include this derserving band. The same I'll do with Avantasia. Only a few days ago I was talking about what can make music prog (or prog related) in the Coldplay thread ... unfortunately Avantasia is one of those bands/projects which use prog elements to embellish their music without actually making it progressive. Have you not seen that they were approved for PROG RELATED? The same "is not prog, is prog-related" motto that we always use to justify other bands, we have to use it here. That such a band is chosen over more worthy additions simply frustrates me. Imagine your luck Mike... you DO have a website where you do as you please. I don't. And I'm happy with the way things are done. Well, if we add Avantasia then we should also be prepared to add Iced Earth, Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica or Fairyland. Iced Earth is not even related to related to prog-metal-related. They're thrash with Iron-Maiden-related COVERS (not music)..... Dragonforce is power metal without the operatic elements of Avantasia (even though played at 94837493 mph)........ Sonata Arctica deserves to be here due to their UNIA album which in my view is 90% full prog-metal......... And Fairyland, welll......what the hell is Fairyland?   
By the way, when you were talking about more-deserving prog-related metal bands, please add AMORPHIS to the list... if people only listened to Elegy and Tuonela and not onlt to Tales froma THousand LAkes, they would be here already....
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Edited by The T - August 14 2008 at 01:33
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: August 14 2008 at 02:47 |
The T wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ so far the PMT has been avoiding/postponing prog related metal additions ... and for good reasons, at least I used to think. At PA I've learned to expect the unexpected, but I must say I'm really floored by this decision.
Why? There are even less prog bands here... And the admin team has reached that decision. As much as I respect the Admin team's decision to reject bands i consider should be here, I also will respect their decision to include bands here.
Respect ... has to be earned. I respect the admin team in many ways ... but I have to admit that I don't trust their judgement when it comes to band additions. The genre teams were created for good reasons ... to have people with a lot of experience in a particular genre vote on bands. For prog related additions the decisions are even more difficult, as the connection to prog is less apparent in the music. But instead of letting the genre teams handle these additions, they are given to the admin team. Frankly, I just can't see the point in that.
BTW: I know all the Avantasia albums - in my opinion they're not only not prog, but also not even prog related. Stretching it a little, they could be prog-RELATED.... In the end, they write operatic-power-metal.. One can see (I CAN, at least) how the Admin team reached such a decision. Unfortunately not all operatic power metal is prog. And I don't even see why you would call Avantasia "operatic" ... there are no operatic vocals on any of those albums. All he's doing is adding a little symphonic/orchestral touch to the songs. I know that some disagree ... but the same is true for Metallica (there are many supporters and many who oppose it). And I decided to shut up and respect the admin's and MAx decisions to not include this derserving band. The same I'll do with Avantasia. Fine. But if there are too many things which you totally disagree with and are forced to accept, it can become too much for you to bear. Only a few days ago I was talking about what can make music prog (or prog related) in the Coldplay thread ... unfortunately Avantasia is one of those bands/projects which use prog elements to embellish their music without actually making it progressive. Have you not seen that they were approved for PROG RELATED? The same "is not prog, is prog-related" motto that we always use to justify other bands, we have to use it here. I don't know what prog-related means. If it means Avantasia, then I resent it. That such a band is chosen over more worthy additions simply frustrates me. Imagine your luck Mike... you DO have a website where you do as you please. I don't. And I'm happy with the way things are done. Then you are fortunate. Well, if we add Avantasia then we should also be prepared to add Iced Earth, Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica or Fairyland. Iced Earth is not even related to related to prog-metal-related. They're thrash with Iron-Maiden-related COVERS (not music)..... Dragonforce is power metal without the operatic elements of Avantasia (even though played at 94837493 mph)........ Sonata Arctica deserves to be here due to their UNIA album which in my view is 90% full prog-metal......... And Fairyland, welll......what the hell is Fairyland? We all make our own reality I guess.
By the way, when you were talking about more-deserving prog-related metal bands, please add AMORPHIS to the list... if people only listened to Elegy and Tuonela and not onlt to Tales froma THousand LAkes, they would be here already.... Nothing for me to do ... the admin band will handle all those bands.
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Diaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 15 2007
Location: Hungary
Status: Offline
Points: 774
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Posted: September 18 2008 at 15:45 |
I just silently add an idea: if many bands such as Avantasia will be asked to add, the admins could make a "Power metal" category. I know, that power isn't prog, but it's the most prog-related metal genre (and classic heavy metal, maybe).
Just an idea. I don't wanna do it.
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yeah
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Avantgardehead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
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Posted: September 18 2008 at 15:52 |
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So operatic elements are now prog-related? Sweet, hello Virgin Black!!
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 03:22 |
Rocktopus wrote:
Sometimes one can judge a book by its cover:
And pleeease, no more suggestions looking like this. Just thinking about what this sounds like makes me ill.
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Looks like a prog cover to me! Nice use of colours and fantasy themes. 
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 19:53 |
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^ the cover is indeed pretty nice Rob, but the actual music is closer to neo-classical metal...
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