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Dean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2008 at 17:57

As long as it was discreet I would imagine a small business-card tucked behind the handles of selected cafetières would be sufficient, least we be accused of dumbing-down for want of popularity.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 14:53
Since intelligent people are known for philosophical debates, I thought I'd bring up an interesting question that I don't think has ever been discussed in western philosophy, the orangeness of fruits:

Carrots are orange yet not oranges. Does this make them less orange than oranges? If oranges are orange and oranges while carrots are orange yet not oranges, are oranges more orange than carrots, being orange in both senses of orange? Are oranges "perfectly" orange because they're orange in every way it is possible to be orange?

But: If orangeness is measured in two ways, how do we compare the two? If there's an orange that is fully an orange, yet not very orange (maybe not orange at all, but painted green), and a carrot that's not an orange at all, but still very much orange (even as orange as it's possible to be), how can we tell which, the orange or the carrot, is more orange? Both are as orange as can be, but in a wholly different way:

                              the orange             |          the carrot
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
an orange |    100%(an orange)      |        0%(not an orange)
orange       |     0%(painted green)   |       100%(absolutely orange)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine an orange orange and a yellow banana. The orange is an orange and orange, the banana is not an orange and not orange. Clearly the banana is less orange than the orange:

                              the orange             |          the banana
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
an orange |    100%                            |        0%(not an orange)
orange       |     95%(very orange)     |        0%(light yellow, not orange at all)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in some cases we can tell which fruit is more orange. Can we always?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 16:50
Confused Orange carrots are an artificial creation - in nature they are either red or yellow, the hybrid 'orange' variety was invented in honour of the Dutch royal family  - so in essence, a carrot is not orange at all, but could under certain circumstances bear a closer relationship to a lemon or perhaps a strawberry (okay - a blood-orange at a push, but that's my final offer).
 
If we were to compare like with like then the root of the orange tree lacks the colour orange all together and would more closely resemble a parsnip or perhaps a horse-radish, while the fruit of the carrot plant is small and green and of little consequence (except to carrot growers).
 
Carrot Orange colour (hex value: #ED9121)  compared to Orange Peel colour (hex value: #FFA000) reveals that carrot is less red and less green but more blue. The significance of this has obvious implications to those suffering red-green colour blindness.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 17:09
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Carrot Orange colour (hex value: #ED9121)  compared to Orange Peel colour (hex value: #FFA000) reveals that carrot is less red and less green but more blue.

This reminds me of another question:

What do we mean by saying: "This carrot is orange?" Surely we don't mean to say: "This carrot is Carrot Orange" or "The hex value of the colour of this carrot is #ED9121." For can't an orange carrot also be Darkorange (#FF8C00) or simply Orange (#FF8000)?

So, when we say that a carrot is orange, we must mean that it's some kind of orange, not necessarily Carrot Oringe. But which colours are orange? At which point does orange turn into red or yellow or white? And when we say: "This carrot is orange", do we mean that the colour of the carrot has some orange in it, or that it has a certain amount of orange? But how would me measure this certain amount? And if we think of orange as a combination of red, green and blue, aren't all combinations of these three colours somewhat resemblant of orange? Can we say of any object: "This object is (somewhat) orange"?


Edited by Vompatti - June 11 2008 at 17:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 17:43
that's an interesting question and I'm sure there is an answer to it somewhere. I have the same issue with Pink - when does Red become Dark Pink and is Pale Red different to Pink...
 
One thought that causes me to stop and ponder from time to time is that oranges are a fruit of oriental origin and the colour is named after the fruit (and not vice versa as in Blueberry), so prior to their introduction into Europe sometime in the 15th Century it implies that we (and I mean that in a pan-European way) never had a name for the range of colours betwix red and yellow, or if we did then that colour-name has been since lost.
 
Another conundrum is that orange is the Dutch royal colour, but the fruit is called an Sinaasappel (trans: Chineese Apple) in that language while the colour orange is oranje i.e. derived from the (in this case, French) name of the fruit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relayer09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 19:19
I believe the carrot to be more orange than the orange in the fact that carrot retains it's orange color consistantly throughout the entire carrot sans the top whereas the orange has non orange elements in it's internal makeup like seeds and the interior of the peel that are in no way orange. The shade of orange I believe to be irrelevant as long as the carrot and orange both are orange in color within the parameters of what is considered orange in color.
If you lose your temper, you've lost the arguement. -Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaeopteryx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 20:24
This could be answered scientifically once one defines what color orange is, be it a hexadecimal notation or a spectrum frequency. Once defined, then you need to gather up as many of the objects you can, be it carrots, oranges, bananas, Ford Pintos, clothes hampers, whatever. Take a large enough sample with as much variety as possible, measure their spectra or image them neutrally and determine their hex value. After a large enough statistical sample, you'll have your answer to which object has the most orangeness.

Then do this monthly and determine if any of the objects becomes more orange over time. There is a seasonal aspect to this that must be considered. Post charts in this forum for second opinions from our fellow gifted scientists in the group. Peer review is important you know.

To take this experiment further, you might want to consider how orange these objects appear in different environmental conditions, such as on the moon, on a planet circling Betelgeuse, in the void between the galaxies in the Local Group. The source lighting is important too. How orange is something on Earth as opposed to Mars? What is the meaning of orange on a planet circling a red dwarf or a blue giant star? All of this must be considered if you truly want to know what orange really is and how orange orange can be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 20:32
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

that's an interesting question and I'm sure there is an answer to it somewhere. I have the same issue with Pink - when does Red become Dark Pink and is Pale Red different to Pink...


color is a continuum - names of colors, depending on how many you like to use, are just course samplings thereof.  it just makes it easier than going around saying "that 450 nm dress looks lovely on you, dear".  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 20:43
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

that's an interesting question and I'm sure there is an answer to it somewhere. I have the same issue with Pink - when does Red become Dark Pink and is Pale Red different to Pink...


color is a continuum - names of colors, depending on how many you like to use, are just course samplings thereof.  it just makes it easier than going around saying "that 450 nm dress looks lovely on you, dear".  Wink
"It's not 450nm it's 457nm! - you know 450nm wavelengths make my bum look big - I don't know why I bother asking your opinion, you obviously have no spectral appreciation!" Confused ... which is why I never go clothes shopping with my wife & daughter. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2008 at 20:59
i myself am red-green color blind - and wife is also constantly amused and/or frustrated with my color ineptitude Wink

and if i ever have a daughter, i'll take your advice.   Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.Rox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2008 at 11:14
I just had a tangerine dream and everything was orange ... but not necessarily oranges! Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2008 at 11:22
Are Tangerine Dream really tangerine? They're not tangerines, nor have they written any music about tangerines. Or have they?

EDIT: Oh, and none of them is from Tangier. Right?


Edited by Vompatti - June 12 2008 at 11:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2008 at 13:17
::hmm, I appear to have stumbled into the "Off at Tangerines" thread::
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2008 at 05:42

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Petrovsk Mizinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2008 at 02:00
Originally posted by Atomic_Rooster Atomic_Rooster wrote:

This is a thread for Intelligent people only.

As the smartest person in the universe, it falls to me to start this thread and to officially admit other people into this thread.

If you wish to be an official member of this thread, then post your 5 best characteristics so that the other members can judge you.  These should not be mental characteristics, because it is assumed that if you want to become a member of this thread, then you are already a very smart person.

If you join, you can enjoy conversing about such diverse intellectual things as: caviar, wine, classical music, how inferior other people are, and other things that might be discussed in a traditional gentleman's (or woman's) club.

List of official members so far:

JJLehto, cuncuna, rileydog22, The Miracle, The Wizard, moreitsythanyou, Arrrghus, Drew, Man Erg, Atavachron, Certif1ed, Sean Trane, Visitor13, Firepuck, andu, Ricochet, StarsongAgeless, progismylife, laplace, Syzygy, Snow Dog, magnus, Viajero Astral, king of Siam, Geck0, Vompatti, The Lost Chord, puma, MrHiccup, prog-jester, fungusucantkill


And of Course the ever amazing Atomic_Rooster



Let's see, Atomic Rooster is gone, Snow Dog, puma, MrHiccup (I think) and Ben has barely been back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heyitsthatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2008 at 02:07
I'd join but I like acting like a dumbass far too much


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2008 at 08:34
I spent months looking for the right thread to post this in, and this is probably not it. Or maybe it is, since what follows is kind of science-related (in the same as Phil Collins is prog-related).

Anyway, I was just taking a bath and found out that an empty bottle that just recently was a non-empty bottle of shower gel can be used as an underwater cannon, volcano, fountain or whale. I had more fun than I've in ages! Then I got hungry and thought I must go for a hamburger and put some money on horses. But I think I'll take another bath today. Or maybe not today, maybe next week.

That's about it, really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaeopteryx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2008 at 21:59
Hamburgers and horses are bath-related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2008 at 03:16
Originally posted by progaeopteryx progaeopteryx wrote:

Hamburgers and horses are bath-related.

Horses yes, hamburgers not quite so much (at least not for me). Horses are money-related and thus everything-related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 13:43
I woke up today and felt a sudden urge to solve every philosophical problem imaginable. So, if you have a question that begs to be answered, let's hear it! With my superior intelligence I can provide the answer to any sensible question in a surprisingly short time.
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