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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
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Posted: June 26 2008 at 20:07 |
Zargus wrote:
finally he is here, the UFO has landed! |
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 26 2008 at 22:13 |
Yeah yeah, make a few decent (but revered) pop albums and a ton of decent pop singles, hang out with Fripp and Eno for a few years, next thing you know you're in. Time to go re-evaluate those Daryl Hall cuts on Exposure.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 06:40 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I used to be aganst Bowie's inclusion, but his Psyche early works and the Ziggy Stardust era is at least Protoi Prog.
But BJORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She even embraced Dance, Trip Hop, Club Dance, Euro Pop, please, I know some people want to be considered "open minded", yes you can listen whatever you like, but she's not trascendental at all for Prog, not influential, not clearly influenced.,
That was my concern about Bowie, he has been added and before a week has passed, he's being used as a trampoline to add an even less related artist by the back door. |
I wouldn't have a problem with Björk in prog-related either. It is not important whether the artist actually wants to produce music that can be categorized as prog, it is important what the music sounds like. Her excursions into Dance or Trip-Hop all have a twist to them that puts them somewhat outside of the genre. She is playfully using these genres to form something of her own artistic vision out of them, and I think that this is what truely characterizes a progressive artist.
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that's a hell of a post Friede... I couldn't agree more.... and that will be be brought more into focus down the road
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:57 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
That was my concern about Bowie, he has been added and before a week has passed, he's being used as a trampoline to add an even less related artist by the back door. |
While PP and PR is under the aegis of the Admins we will ensure that all health and safety procedures are in force when the trampoline is being used - this includes locking the back-door and placing crash-mats around the perimeter
PP & PR additions can only be recommended to us by SCs, which adds a second level of 'protection' to the process that isn't present in any other sub - Admins blocking an SC's suggestion is rare, but it has been done and will probably happen again in the future. One further safeguard is that recommendations can be discussed in the SC zone before passing them on to us, so if we feel that a suggestion has not been given enough discussion then we will suggest to the proposer that further SCZ discussion is needed.
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What?
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 09:10 |
Just something I noticed, don't know if it needs changing.
There is one small error in album titles. Outside is actually called 1. Outside (as it was the intend to create 5 albums, but the other four never got made)
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 09:22 |
^ fixed
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What?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 10:55 |
I added that one, my bad.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 14:50 |
darqDean wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
That was my concern about Bowie, he has been added and before a week has passed, he's being used as a trampoline to add an even less related artist by the back door. |
While PP and PR is under the aegis of the Admins we will ensure that all health and safety procedures are in force when the trampoline is being used - this includes locking the back-door and placing crash-mats around the perimeter
PP & PR additions can only be recommended to us by SCs, which adds a second level of 'protection' to the process that isn't present in any other sub - Admins blocking an SC's suggestion is rare, but it has been done and will probably happen again in the future. One further safeguard is that recommendations can be discussed in the SC zone before passing them on to us, so if we feel that a suggestion has not been given enough discussion then we will suggest to the proposer that further SCZ discussion is needed.
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and let me add.... what is less related to some members.... can ..and sometimes is related.. or more related for others hahhah . That is why we have an inclusive and collaborative site. That is why I have such.. well.... not a great deal of respect for those who bitch about these kinds of things.. that smacks of a rigid and inflexible way of seeing things... and inabliity to recognize.. or even respect differing opinions.
Edited by micky - June 27 2008 at 14:53
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 19:50 |
micky wrote:
and let me add.... what is less related to some members.... can ..and sometimes is related.. or more related for others hahhah . That is why we have an inclusive and collaborative site. That is why I have such.. well.... not a great deal of respect for those who bitch about these kinds of things.. that smacks of a rigid and inflexible way of seeing things... and inabliity to recognize.. or even respect differing opinions.
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For some of us 'of a certain age', Bowie represented everything that was wrong with rock at the time (style over substance). Fortunately we had prog to turn to when we wanted to hear 'good' music. I have since that time softened my stance (hey, when you are a teenager and a musician you can be very opinionated about what is right with music and what is wrong).
I have no problem with his addition, regardless of my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments above. In fact now I'll have incentive to listen to and perhaps review the couple of Bowie albums I have.
Now about that XTC band...
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 21:30 |
jammun wrote:
For some of us 'of a certain age', Bowie represented everything that was wrong with rock at the time (style over substance). Fortunately we had prog to turn to when we wanted to hear 'good' music. I have since that time softened my stance (hey, when you are a teenager and a musician you can be very opinionated about what is right with music and what is wrong).
I have no problem with his addition, regardless of my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments above. In fact now I'll have incentive to listen to and perhaps review the couple of Bowie albums I have.
Now about that XTC band... |
look forward to what you have to say... personally I think that anyone who sees Bowie as a 'triumph of style over substance' misses the boat completely on him. The truly great ones can bring both to the table..
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:31 |
micky wrote:
jammun wrote:
For some of us 'of a certain age', Bowie represented everything that was wrong with rock at the time (style over substance). Fortunately we had prog to turn to when we wanted to hear 'good' music. I have since that time softened my stance (hey, when you are a teenager and a musician you can be very opinionated about what is right with music and what is wrong).
I have no problem with his addition, regardless of my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments above. In fact now I'll have incentive to listen to and perhaps review the couple of Bowie albums I have.
Now about that XTC band... |
look forward to what you have to say... personally I think that anyone who sees Bowie as a 'triumph of style over substance' misses the boat completely on him. The truly great ones can bring both to the table..
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In terms of style over substance, I'm only referring to Bowie's early years. There was a sense amongst some of us that glam was taking over (e.g., early Bowie, T. Rex, Slade, Alice Cooper and I am sure others who don't come directly to mind but if someone here mentions them I'm sure I'll all too sorrily remember). There was in a sense battle-lines being drawn (as there were at the time in many other ways...was a person a Young Republican Nixon-backer in favor of the war in Viet Nam, or not?).
But back to the music...
In 1971, which albums would I buy: Hunky Dory or perhaps The Yes Album, Tarkus, and Islands?
In 1972, which albums would i buy: Space Oddity and Ziggy, or perhaps Fragile, CTTE, and Trilogy?
In 1973, which albums would I buy: Aladdiin Sane, or perhaps Brain Salad and LTIA?
Looking back, well we can re-evaluate and I have. I find a lot of merit in those albums that I don't find in Slade or Alice Cooper, though man do I love Electric Warrior and Slider (Metal Guru!) However, at the time, there was no question what a fan of progressive music was listening to, and I can assure you Bowie was not in the mix.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:53 |
jammun wrote:
micky wrote:
jammun wrote:
For some of us 'of a certain age', Bowie represented everything that was wrong with rock at the time (style over substance). Fortunately we had prog to turn to when we wanted to hear 'good' music. I have since that time softened my stance (hey, when you are a teenager and a musician you can be very opinionated about what is right with music and what is wrong).
I have no problem with his addition, regardless of my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments above. In fact now I'll have incentive to listen to and perhaps review the couple of Bowie albums I have.
Now about that XTC band... |
look forward to what you have to say... personally I think that anyone who sees Bowie as a 'triumph of style over substance' misses the boat completely on him. The truly great ones can bring both to the table..
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In terms of style over substance, I'm only referring to Bowie's early years. There was a sense amongst some of us that glam was taking over (e.g., early Bowie, T. Rex, Slade, Alice Cooper and I am sure others who don't come directly to mind but if someone here mentions them I'm sure I'll all too sorrily remember). There was in a sense battle-lines being drawn (as there were at the time in many other ways...was a person a Young Republican Nixon-backer in favor of the war in Viet Nam, or not?).
But back to the music...
In 1971, which albums would I buy: Hunky Dory or perhaps The Yes Album, Tarkus, and Islands?
In 1972, which albums would i buy: Space Oddity and Ziggy, or perhaps Fragile, CTTE, and Trilogy?
In 1973, which albums would I buy: Aladdiin Sane, or perhaps Brain Salad and LTIA?
Looking back, well we can re-evaluate and I have. I find a lot of merit in those albums that I don't find in Slade or Alice Cooper, though man do I love Electric Warrior and Slider (Metal Guru!) However, at the time, there was no question what a fan of progressive music was listening to, and I can assure you Bowie was not in the mix.
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That wasn't the situation in the UK - Bowie was not dismissed by people who liked Prog, nor was Marc Bolan come to that, as most people remembered them before Glam Rock. Roxy Music and Queen formed the bridge between Prog and Glam that meant it was all right to like Bowie, just as long as you owned a copy of Tontos Expanding Head Band or 200 Motels to keep your credibility in tact.
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What?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:57 |
the more you you post on this.. the more curious I get to read your reviews.. with the benefit of a few miles on the odometer and one hell of a rear-view mirror. But being the curious cat that I am... I'll cut to the chase... I dig what you are saying about back in the day.. .but what about now... would you classify Bowie... a progressive artist.. a purveyor of progressive music. I think you answered that by saying that you didn't have a problem with his addition.. but still.. curious as to how you see him in a nutshell
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 23:05 |
^^Good to hear how it was elsewhere. In the good ol' USA Bowie and progressive were more or less mutually exclusive in the early '70s. I'm sure there were people who liked both, but I didn't meet any of them. (Could've been thecrowd I was hanging out with.) The first Bowie album I bought was Station to Station, by which point I thought he was making pretty good music without all the non-essential bells and whistles.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 23:38 |
micky wrote:
the more you you post on this.. the more curious I get to read your reviews.. with the benefit of a few miles on the odometer and one hell of a rear-view mirror. But being the curious cat that I am... I'll cut to the chase... I dig what you are saying about back in the day.. .but what about now... would you classify Bowie... a progressive artist.. a purveyor of progressive music. I think you answered that by saying that you didn't have a problem with his addition.. but still.. curious as to how you see him in a nutshell |
Well we are tripping over each other's posts here.
With hindsight, I still don't consider Bowie progressive in the classic sense. But prog-related I'll buy that. Why not? Ever changing, making good if not challenging music along the way. Station to Station, Low, Heroes, Lodger...these are all fine albums (in no small part due to the company he chose to keep at the time, but that's the case with any musician). The earlier stuff, not so sure about the prog aspect. For me, Nirvana gave the earlier stuff some credibility in my book by the cover they did on the Unplugged album. Not saying Nirvana is the arbiter of what's good, but the fact that Kurt chose to cover Bowie says something about the timelessness of some of the early stuff, which frankly was lost on me prior to that. But it gives impetus to re-listen to those early albums, without the either/or prejudices, and though I'll still stick with my Zephyr or Joe Walsh or any number of other fine rockers of the era, I can appreciate it now.
I should mention I had the same problem with Eno back in the day and now that I'm ancient enough to not care whether these guys were wearing make-up and sporting platform shoes and and/or pumping out a stage act that featured more theatrics than music...well I can just listen to the music and I'm much more forgiving than I was at the time.
As I posted before on another thread, given that my mindset was substance over style, you can imagine my apoplexy when I saw ELP in concert and actually up there before my eyes witnessed the spinning grand piano. That's when I started listening to jazz and fusion. But I guess we're getting off the Bowie track here.
So long-winded post, Bowie will never be in my favorites. I suppose there's too much water under the bridge. But there are a few core Bowie albums that we should all be aware of -- as frequenters of this site. And I like ABBA as well.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 27 2008 at 23:59 |
excellent... though we do have differing opinions on that.. I think he is the classic sense.. but isn't in the modern sense.. where the focus is on those serialized benchmarks for the genre of prog.. complexity, instrumental acrabatics and crap like that... while in the classic sense.. he was as progressive as any one out there.. in the sense of bring together art and music..much like Battiato.. who never rested on a particular style. let me know when you toss off some Bowie reviews.. looking forward to reading them. .especially on that early stuff.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 00:38 |
Well I am slow to review...too much time on the forums here but they shall come and we'd probably better consider a place for Mott the Hoople as well, given the All the Young Dudes connections. I know the drill...but that first album, particularly Half Moon Bay, has prog-related written all over it. Don't know how i'd justify Sonny Bono's (the other Bono, ha!) Laugh At Me, however...
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lucas
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 05:25 |
Bowie is in the archives. Let's dance !
My favourites albums : "Lodger" and "Low". Bowie is a "chameleon" and cannot be categorized.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 05:55 |
is what I think ... its a sad day for prog archives
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 06:46 |
Yorkie X wrote:
is what I think ... its a sad day for prog archives
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oh no.. you missed the poll some space cadet did...on whether Peter Gabriel was a f**king nut or something like that. Didn't see it.. but heard about it....that was a sad day. This was only an addition you don't agree with. Time for some perspective there buddy.
Edited by micky - June 28 2008 at 06:48
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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