British Prog is the best??

Some truths are self evident, of course Brit is best

I have to side with Rocktopus on this (not on the ignorant part, though). If we are talking about the late Sixties-early Seventies, of course British prog was the trailblazer - though other countries, like my native Italy or Germany, were very quick to take up the cue and start a vibrant prog scene of their own. The release dates of many essential prog albums from other European countries bear witness to that.  As for the following decades, with the exception of the Neo period of the early Eighties, British prog basically went into a steady decline, while the prog scene remains strong to this day in many European countries, including Italy. 

^ what he said about what she said 

HughesJB4 wrote: LinusW wrote: ^ what he said about what she said  What he said about what he said about what she said

No, NOT what any of them said at all. I firmly agree with the original post that Classic English Prog has never been bettered. Laugh at me, if you like, but such prog (e.g. Hatfield and the North, Caravan, Bruford, Gabriel-era Genesis, Jethro Tull) as well as other classic rock (Bowie, the Who, the Stones) is one of the reasons why I decided to move to the U.K., even though I was born and bred in oh-so proggy (???) Belgium! I simply thought: a country that produces such brilliant music can't be all bad!

Of course I realise British prog was virtually obliterated in the 1980s. (Marillion and Neo-prog never appealed to me.) But I definitely do not agree that the British prog scene is now one of the worst in the world. If you discount Prog Metal (which simply irritates the hell out of me), just who ARE all those gorgeous non-British bands now flying the flag of prog? Among mainstream prog acts, are ANY of them artistically more succesful than Porcupine Tree? In symphonic prog, is any band more inventive than the Tangent? In prog folk, just who sounds better than Guy Manning or Mostly Autumn?

Much to my delight, in recent years more and more British acts have appeared which are strongly influenced by the Canterbury Scene, e.g. Theo Travis and the Delta Saxophone Quartet. (Prominent British jazz artists like Julian Arguelles or Django Bates have, of course, been 'closet Canterbury acts' for years!) And I haven't even mentioned the fact both Kevin Ayers and Robert Wyatt returned, last year, with some of their strongest music in ages...

The early German, French and Italian were on average much more daring than most of the British bands (with some notable exceptions; I won't deny that). But saying that the British scene was the most experimental just shows you don't know enough of the other scenes. The first albums of Amon Düül 2, Guru Guru, Tangerine Dream or Can, to name just the most famous acts, go way beyond the experiments of most British bands. And I have not mentioned bands like Anima, Between or Annexus Quam (and lots of other bands; I could give a long list) yet, who were probably the most extreme of all.


Edited by BaldFriede - June 15 2008 at 08:11

BaldFriede wrote: The early German, French and Italian were on average much more daring than most of the British bands (with some notable exceptions; I won't deny that). But saying that the British scene was the most experimental just shows you don't know enough of the other scenes. The first albums of Amon Düül 2, Guru Guru, Tangerine Dream or Can, to name just the most famous acts, go way beyond the experiments of most British bands. And I have not mentioned bands like Anima, Between or Annexus Quam (and lots of other bands; I could give a long list) yet, who were probably the most extreme of all.

I haven't heard anyone say British prog was "the most experimental".

fuxi wrote: Of course I realise British prog was virtually obliterated in the 1980s. (Marillion and Neo-prog never appealed to me.) But I definitely do not agree that the British prog scene is now one of the worst in the world. If you discount Prog Metal (which simply irritates the hell out of me), just who ARE all those gorgeous non-British bands now flying the flag of prog? Among mainstream prog acts, are ANY of them artistically more succesful than Porcupine Tree? In symphonic prog, is any band more inventive than the Tangent? In prog folk, just who sounds better than Guy Manning or Mostly Autumn?

I discount progmetal too. Its your own problem that you don't know any gorgeous non-british bands, just some boring british ones.

Rocktopus wrote: Its your own problem that you don't know any gorgeous non-british bands, just some boring british ones.

Now that is (a) rude and (b) wrong.

I love and admire lots of non-British acts whose music is prog-related, e.g. Kurt Rosenwinkel, Rabih Abou-Khalil, Tord Gustavsen Trio, Christian McBride, Hiromi, Marcus Stockhausen, Louis Sclavis, Tryvge Seim and Christian Wallumrod. I won't go into classical music today.

If you're just talking prog, I love and admire Can, Kraan, Neu, Guru Guru, dEUS, PFM, Le Orme, Pekka Pohjola, Wobbler, Anekdoten, Zappa, Happy the Man, Deluge Grander, Birds and Buildings, Pat Metheny and many, many others.

Besides, the British acts I enjoy aren't "boring" at all. So I really do not have a "problem".

Edited by fuxi - June 15 2008 at 09:07

Visitor13 wrote: Rocktopus wrote: Tasartir wrote: Hmmm, Frank Zappa, anyone? So what? What do you mean? Everybody knows he is great, and that he is american. But Zappa (and Beefheart) hardly make up a "progscene" alone. And Yezda Urfa, and Happy the Man, and probably some other stuff... still not a "scene", but there's more there than it would appear. And that's just the '70s stuff.

You should know that I know that too, but as you also say; It doesn't make a scene (and I was writing about the american 70's).

Rocktopus wrote: ^ Well, you asked who the non-UK bands were. If Tangent, Porcupine Tree and Mostly Autumn's exiting, "new" and progressive to your ears, well I don't know what to say without being insulting or rude.

Logic doesn't seem to be your strongest point, eh?

My first question was: 'Among mainstream prog acts, are any of them artistically more succesful than Porcupine Tree?' If you disregard Prog Metal, the only possible answer is the Mars Volta, and I don't see what makes them newer or 'more progressive' than Porcupine Tree. But my question was largely theoretical, since mainstream prog plays a small part in my life anyway.

My second question: 'In symphonic prog, is any band more inventive than the Tangent?' I know fully well the Tanget's music is largely retro, but I still think they're superbly inventive. Having said that, I now realise Discus (from Indonesia, and a symphonic band, in my view) and Deluge Grander (U.S.) may actually be more exciting and more innovative than the Tangent. But I still admire the latter, if only for Andy Tillison's crazy keyboard playing.

My final question: 'In prog folk, just who sounds better than Guy Manning or Mostly Autumn?' Well, if you dislike these bands so much you can only be RUDE about them, THAT's your problem, not mine!