The Intelligent People's Thread

Since intelligent people are known for philosophical debates, I thought I'd bring up an interesting question that I don't think has ever been discussed in western philosophy, the orangeness of fruits:

Carrots are orange yet not oranges. Does this make them less orange than oranges? If oranges are orange and oranges while carrots are orange yet not oranges, are oranges more orange than carrots, being orange in both senses of orange? Are oranges "perfectly" orange because they're orange in every way it is possible to be orange?

But: If orangeness is measured in two ways, how do we compare the two? If there's an orange that is fully an orange, yet not very orange (maybe not orange at all, but painted green), and a carrot that's not an orange at all, but still very much orange (even as orange as it's possible to be), how can we tell which, the orange or the carrot, is more orange? Both are as orange as can be, but in a wholly different way:

                              the orange             |          the carrot
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
an orange |    100%(an orange)      |        0%(not an orange)
orange       |     0%(painted green)   |       100%(absolutely orange)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine an orange orange and a yellow banana. The orange is an orange and orange, the banana is not an orange and not orange. Clearly the banana is less orange than the orange:

                              the orange             |          the banana
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
an orange |    100%                            |        0%(not an orange)
orange       |     95%(very orange)     |        0%(light yellow, not orange at all)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in some cases we can tell which fruit is more orange. Can we always?

DISCUSS!!!

darqDean wrote: Carrot Orange colour (hex value: #ED9121)  compared to Orange Peel colour (hex value: #FFA000) reveals that carrot is less red and less green but more blue.

This reminds me of another question:

What do we mean by saying: "This carrot is orange?" Surely we don't mean to say: "This carrot is Carrot Orange" or "The hex value of the colour of this carrot is #ED9121." For can't an orange carrot also be Darkorange (#FF8C00) or simply Orange (#FF8000)?

So, when we say that a carrot is orange, we must mean that it's some kind of orange, not necessarily Carrot Oringe. But which colours are orange? At which point does orange turn into red or yellow or white? And when we say: "This carrot is orange", do we mean that the colour of the carrot has some orange in it, or that it has a certain amount of orange? But how would me measure this certain amount? And if we think of orange as a combination of red, green and blue, aren't all combinations of these three colours somewhat resemblant of orange? Can we say of any object: "This object is (somewhat) orange"?


Edited by Vompatti - June 11 2008 at 17:10

I believe the carrot to be more orange than the orange in the fact that carrot retains it's orange color consistantly throughout the entire carrot sans the top whereas the orange has non orange elements in it's internal makeup like seeds and the interior of the peel that are in no way orange. The shade of orange I believe to be irrelevant as long as the carrot and orange both are orange in color within the parameters of what is considered orange in color.

darqDean wrote: that's an interesting question and I'm sure there is an answer to it somewhere. I have the same issue with Pink - when does Red become Dark Pink and is Pale Red different to Pink...

color is a continuum - names of colors, depending on how many you like to use, are just course samplings thereof.  it just makes it easier than going around saying "that 450 nm dress looks lovely on you, dear". 

i myself am red-green color blind - and wife is also constantly amused and/or frustrated with my color ineptitude 

and if i ever have a daughter, i'll take your advice.  

Are Tangerine Dream really tangerine? They're not tangerines, nor have they written any music about tangerines. Or have they?

EDIT: Oh, and none of them is from Tangier. Right?


Edited by Vompatti - June 12 2008 at 11:24

I'd join but I like acting like a dumbass far too much

Hamburgers and horses are bath-related.

I woke up today and felt a sudden urge to solve every philosophical problem imaginable. So, if you have a question that begs to be answered, let's hear it! With my superior intelligence I can provide the answer to any sensible question in a surprisingly short time.