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TGM: Orb 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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 Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:34 |
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Don't know how you'd classify me. Yes, I do mainly listen to (and am buying) 70s stuff, but I wouldn't really consider myself a conservative listener. I feel that, if I missed Canterbury/Zeuhl/Symphonic the first time round, I might as well stock up on that instead of getting some modern prog metal that I won't generally care for.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:35 |
 NaturalScience wrote:
College education in the United States is unbelievably expensive, to the point of lunacy. Public (state) universities are less expensive but still very costly. To offset these gargantuan costs, young people need to borrow an incredible amount of money such that the need for a good paying job after graduation is all the more pressing, as you are now in a lot of debt. And if you want to go to medical school, law school, or some other graduate studies...you could have education debt until you're 50 years old! Young parents like myself have already started college funds for their children (my son is not yet two years old), and even then I feel like there's no chance of me saving enough to cover the costs.
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  WHAT? That should be against the law! Damn, i know Brazil has yet to improve its education quality and our system to get in collages is not very fair with people who were to public schools (the best basic schools are private), but at least everybody have a chance to try its way to collage education (our best collages are federal universities, paid 100% with tax money, so there are no extra expenses, even tho private collages are becoming better every day. The law college i study, for example, is private and is the country 8th best and is the best law college in my state, even better than the federal one; however, it is fairly payable, not entering the ridiculous prices of US colleges).
Edited by CCVP - May 30 2008 at 15:37
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:42 |
Yes.... that's how it is here.... The biggest economy in thw world with no universal health care and no free education....
But at least there are tons of prog bands here!
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:44 |
Federal and state governments provide some education tax credits to help with some of the burden of the cost of educations and the federal government allows a deduction for education loan interest, but these are limited mostly to lower income taxpayers. Some states allow for free community college education to residents (at least I have heard that California does this). There has been talk of increasing the federal tax credits but who know if and when those will see the light of day. Sort of like universal health care. Good idea; awfully expensive; and would ultimately have to be paid via increased taxes. Possibly, what is known as a "progressive" tax.
Back on topic, I think like most I fit in to both categories. I listen to 70's prog and music that sounds similar to 70's prog, but I also like to explore the modern bands. Some I like and some I don't but at least I am interested in exploring outside of my comfort zone.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:46 |
The T wrote:
Yes.... that's how it is here.... The biggest economy in thw world with no universal health care and no free education....
But at least there are tons of prog bands here! |
and you can destroy the world 3 times with your atomic bombs 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:46 |
CCVP wrote:
I wonder what is this site main user: the progressive or the conservative prog listener? If you guys keep discovering new bands, keep trying to find new things or if you listen only the same old bands.
It's true that SOME 70's bands like Genesis (Gabriel era) and Kansas will always have a special place in my discography among others, as part of the Symphonic Team we have added more than 100 modern bands to the genre.
But that's not all, as a fact I'm impressed with the new tendencies of Symphonic Prog, specially those comming from Eastern Europe and Unoited States. The first one is clearly blending cultural and musical elñements of their own ethnicity, creating a esplendid fusion of Orchestal Symphonic with Romanian, Yougosalvian, Russia, etc Folk elements which make a new fresh and richer sound.
On the other hand other schools as the North American is adding Avant and experimental elements that make the sub-genre much more challenging and elaborate.
So there's place for classical and modern Prog in my dicography.
Another thing in this question is: do you guys listen more old school prog (70's prog and prog made today that sounds like 70's prog, such as Glass Hammer) or modern prog bands (neo prog, prog metal, new wave of symphonic, etc).
Glass Hammer are good, I can't deny that, but not my favorites, I'm going more with the most adveturous bands like Deluge Grander, now with this Avant group named Factor Burzaco which has caused a great impression in those who have listened t
Even though I listen a lot of Neo Prog, I don't consider it a modern genre (IMHO opinion modern Prog is born in the 90's with the Symphonic Renaissance in Scandinavia and the boom of Prog Metal), as a fact Neo is probably the sub-genre that has evolved less in comparisson with others, maybe due to the fact that thepeak has been limited to a short period bewteen 1980 and 1987, but again bands as Pendragon, IQ or Fish's Marillion will always have a place in my CD player.
It's not a secret that Prog Metal is not my cup of tea, but still some bands like PoS are interesting, while the New direction of Symphonic is my main interest in this moment.
In my case things are pretty balanced: i listen old school prog and modern prog almost 50/50. Now what about you  ?
Honestly, except Gabriel Genesis, Kansas, a bit of Pink Floyd, Triumvirat and Renaissance, I don't find myself listening too much 70's Prog, there are so many bands that deserve to be listened, that if I had stayed in the 70's, would be missing a lot of great music, like Hyacintus, Tanger, Karda Estra, Trespass (Isreael), Sympzion, Factor Burzaco, Yesterdays, etc. But this doesn't mean I will forget the pioneers who made all this possible.
Iván
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:47 |
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Constantly looking for new music, but mostly listening to tried and true favorites.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:48 |
CCVP wrote:
i will go a bit off topic here, but i have ever had a doubt and this may be the opportunity to kill the doubt: why you must have a fund to have college education on "1st world countries"?
Is good college education only available in private colleges and is it so expensive that you have to save your money for decades so your children would be able to have that education?
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Basically, yes.
And no - when the children are at college, they have to either be funded by a parent that's been able to save a considerable sum, or borrow an amount equivalent to their first years' wages once they've left college.
My wife left college with debts of around £25000, and that's normal these days in the UK, I understand.
Sometimes I wonder just how 1st world we really are, with the amount we pay in taxation, and the recent hikes in Local Government, Fuel/Energy and Food costs.
The whole country is in debt - including the leadership party - so you could say we don't actually own anything, as it's all on tick.
Anyway, as far as progressive listening is concerned, the answer is probably.
I do tend to find myself listening to the era between 1966-73, as that's when most of the really exciting music was written - everything since has been a bit of a rehash, on the whole.
The only real exceptions came in the dreaded 1980s that people love to shudder about - but considering the explosion of metal and the development of thrash (something that didn't exist in the 1960s), the electronics-based groups, the New Romantics, Neo-Prog, the re-vitalisation of Ska, the transformation of punk into the more intelligent New Wave, The Smiths, Sonic Youth - and so on.
But the 1960s is where it all started, and the 1970s where it was brought to a head - and, as a consumate historian, that's where I tend to find most listening pleasure, as I trawl around trying to pinpoint the birthplace of Prog Rock (if it exists). Everything started in that era - specifically sometime in 1965. Unless you count Rock'n'Roll, which started in 1955 - or was it earlier? The 1920s? You see where this is going? 
Edited by Certif1ed - May 30 2008 at 15:49
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 15:53 |
I like my music as I like my taxes: progressive.
I had to say that even though is false. My taxes I like progressive, but my rock-music collection, though 80% made of bands listen in PA, is much more varied and my tastes as I said cover the whole spectrum of prog.... I'm not so much into the newer experiments with too minimalist music or lack of tonality... I'm not that avantgarde you know.. So I'm not quite fully progressive in my listening habits...
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Relayer09
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2007
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 314
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 16:00 |
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I like new music as long as it's good. Being a progressive listener is only good if the new music you are are listening to holds up to or surpasses the standards of what came before it. Some new music succeeds and some fails. I find myself listening to Purcupine Tree, The Mars Volta, Dream Theater, Shadow Gallery, Spock's Beard, Transatlantic and Arena quite alot but I tend to listen to older prog a bit more than the newer music.
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If you lose your temper, you've lost the arguement. -Proverb
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 16:13 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Even though I listen a lot of Neo Prog, I don't consider it a modern genre (IMHO opinion modern Prog is born in the 90's with the Symphonic Renaissance in Scandinavia and the boom of Prog Metal), as a fact Neo is probably the sub-genre that has evolved less in comparisson with others, maybe due to the fact that thepeak has been limited to a short period bewteen 1980 and 1987, but again bands as Pendragon, IQ or Fish's Marillion will always have a place in my CD player. |
Gotta agree with you here Ivan: i also believe that this new wave of prog were born in the 90's with the Scandinavian Symphonic Renaissance and the prog metal boom of the 90's and also believe that Neo is the most limited sub-genre, the one that less evolved. However, since prog "died" on the early 80's (probably 81, with the releases of Moving Pictures and The Wall symbolizing the end of an era), i consider neo a modern genre. To see how neo is limited, just check the top 100 albums and you'll only see 2 neo prog albums separated by 15 years.
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 17:23 |
I started really getting into prog around the time I turned 16 or so. At that point I was into metal more than anything. So I tended towards more aggressive music that could really excite me. I've always craved something that leaned more towards being interesting than it was consistent. A regular beat with predictable structure bored me. Anything that metamorphosed as the song progressed really appealed to me. So when prog metal was being born, I was very excited. But at the same time, I always remembered the things I heard growing up. That included bands like Genesis and Yes and other "mainstream" radio prog. I guess I came at prog sideways. I was born in '72, so I was too young for the birth of it all. But I was able to appreciate the offspring of those early bands. So I grew with the music going forward with the new stuff, as well as seeking out the original stuff. And I continue to search for music both old and new all the time. Sometimes I have to calm down and listen to what I have instead of looking for something new  Classic or contemporary, as long as it's new to me, it's new to me  And I will always look for new music that excites me. My wife fell in love with the Smashing Pumpkins when they came about. And that is her absolute favorite band. She can listen to nothing but Billy if she had to. But she does like other stuff. Just not as much. And I have exposed her to a lot of things. Some of which she's actually let me put in her ipod  And she has only recently actively started looking for new music that really moves her. I told her it's not so bad as long as she's happy with what she already has. And she has a hard time liking anything else, holding them up against her favorite, the Pumpkins. But I just can't seem to stop looking for something else. It may be reminiscent of another band or bands, but if it's created with any measure of care, well executed and not too derivative, I'm willing to give it a shot. And I'm probably much more familiar with newer stuff than older. But as long as it's there to be found, I'll run across it at some point.
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 17:47 |
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I only listen to pre-1989 artists, so there we go.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 18:56 |
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I've always been a seeker out of new music ever since I became a hooked on prog. I got that way because back in the day, late '70's, there was already an established bunch of progressive music with plenty to explore backwards. In fact, thanks in no small part to this site and despite the large amounts of artists I discovered back then, I'm finding there's still lots of stuff to try out from that era. But for me there's no better time for prog than the present with plenty of old and new stuff to enjoy.
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 30 2008 at 18:56
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 19:11 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
I've always been a seeker out of new music ever since I became a hooked on prog. I got that way because back in the day, late '70's, there was already an established bunch of progressive music with plenty to explore backwards. In fact, thanks in no small part to this site and despite the large amounts of artists I discovered back then, I'm finding there's still lots of stuff to try out from that era. But for me there's no better time for prog than the present with plenty of old and new stuff to enjoy.
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Almost all of that I can relate to.  I "fell" across this site a few years back Googling for something about prog and found this to be a treasure trove of good recommendations and opened doors to music I'd missed or never heard of. And yeah, I'm as much about what's coming down the pike as I am what's already out there.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 19:14 |
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/\
prog archives also helped and still helps me a lot, when it comes to finding new prog bands or knowing the feedback of some album.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 19:27 |
I wouldn't say Neo Prog is limited, by the contrary, but the natural evolution of the situation stopped a further development
Neo Prog is somehow a paradoxical evolution of Symphonic, because normally evolution goes from simpler to more complex. Neo Prog despite the beauty and excellent work of several bands tends to gather more mainstream elements than Symphonic.
So Neo Prog suffered a contradictory evolution, from complex to simpler (In general terms), but still Neo Prog offers us excellent bands and very unique elements never presented before.
But why?
I believe because Prog natural space was very limited in the early 80’s , the alternative market was absorbed by Punk and later by the hybrids developed from Punk like Post Punk and New Wave, on the other hand the mainstream market was absorbed by that phenomenon called Disco.
And the public towards Prog was directed mainly (Concerned University students of the 70’s) changed ideals and became the Yuppie generation that got tired of complexities and took New Age as the mechanism to relax themselves more than a challenging genre as Prog.
So Neo Prog had a very limited audience, and had the need to capture new people or vanish, so they went for an intermediate market that didn’t existed, but when this new sub-genre was starting to evolve by own merits and with the influences from Japan and Poland (among others), the Swedish Symphonic Movement gave a great jump towards complexity again and Neo Prog had to stop evolving.
Now limited? I don’t think so, despite being structurally simpler than Symphonic, Neo Prog gave for the first time in Prog history the real role deserved to the guitar, this instrument was no longer the background of the keyboards but took the front line.
Just to finish, Neo Prog was trapped in the limits of a decade and short musical space to develop, but their important mission was to keep Progressive Rock alive in a decade that didn’t wanted Prog.
Iván
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Valdez
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 699
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 21:24 |
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I am always in search of new and groundbreaking music. Where better to find it than progressive sites. There are so few artrock or experimental websites that feature bands that cater to my whims. The prog sites introduce me to what I'm looking for in music and it may or may not be purist progressive.
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https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 22:24 |
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Well being 'of a certain age' I'm obviously old-school, which is to say I grew up on and prefer to listen to prog from the early era. But my brain has not atrophied to the point that I don't enjoy new music. So I look forward to new Tool and Mars Volta (and sometimes Rush) releases, and rediscover relative rarities (at least in the US) that I never heard back in the day, e.g., Os Mutantes. And I pick up any new stuff from Gilmour and Knopfler. Though not prog by any stretch, those two seem to run at about my speed these days . I can see how they would not appeal to listeners considerably younger than myself. But that's the great thing about the site here. Maybe I'll find something new (whether literally new or new to me).
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: May 30 2008 at 22:27 |
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I am always listening to new music (I have barely even listened to some of the things I've bought) and I don't pay attention to what era something is from, but I probably like much more modern prog, at least recently.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Are you a "progressive" listener?
