Virtuosity vs Arrogance

well, prog is not the only music I listen to. I also love jazz, classical music and, for lack of a better word, "folk music" (meaning traditional music from all over the world)

spookytooth wrote: fil karada wrote: Sure one of the reasons that makes me like Prog music is the technique and virtuosity of its players, but sometimes dont you get bored? For some bands I do get bored after a while, but for many prog bands I never get bored of them. [QUOTE=fil karada] You can't dance to most prog music

I disagree. of course you can dance to it. why shouldn't you? you don't need a 4/4 to dance, and changing rhythms and tempos are not a problem at all. on the contrary, they give you possibilities for very expressive dancing. dancing to a 4/4 is rather boring. we were at an Embryo concert, and the people danced like mad to the very complicated rhythms of them (Embryo use rhythms based on the Tala Tarangini, the Indian school of rhythms)

fil karada wrote: Sure one of the reasons that makes me like Prog music is the technique and virtuosity of its players, but sometimes dont you get bored 1? After hearing only Prog music 2 for months dont you feel the necessaty of "exchange" to something more soft music and intelectualy ? Considering all this dont you think that the strongest reason for people to dislike Prog music 3 (apart from the obvious reason that the complexity of Prog music is a barrier to most pop fans 4) is the arrogance of some bands 5 (of course most of the Prog music bands aren't arrogants IMO but i think most pop fans dont know it) and their pomposity? Think about it

1. Not really, no.

2a. I do also occasionally head for classical, world and more sophisticated AOR/blues rock music, as well as a couple of odds and ends such as Simon And Garfunkel or Dire Straits. Predominantly I do listen to things which'd be considered prog.

2b. Prog is a hugely diverse umbrella of bands (not even a genre). Those bands often have very diverse output, much of which is merely good forms of a more defined genre (take Tull's blues days or, say, Camel's debut, or even ELP's Works II). I think that listening only to 'prog' is probably just about as varied as the rest of my tastes put together.

2c. I do not easily get bored or exhausted from fast or virtuostic playing, and if I do, I can always revert to something like Camel, Focus or Floyd, none of which I really find challenging at all. One of the appeals of progressive music for me is that I can listen lots of it in completely different ways, and so really don't get bored per sé.

2overall. So no.

3. No. I don't hear many 'pop' fans knocking, say, Jimi Hendrix, Santana or Mark Knopfler, all of whom are pretty capable players.

4. Complexity is probably not the biggest issue, or even one of the biggest.

5. Perceived pretentiousness is an issue, but really I think that perception is not the result of musicianship.

Aha

and i think virtuosity and technique can be found in every kind of music, not only prog

We have a winner.


Edited by TGM: Orb - May 29 2008 at 13:40

BaldJean wrote: well, prog is not the only music I listen to. I also love jazz, classical music and, for lack of a better word, "folk music" (meaning traditional music from all over the world)

Same with me! When I listen to too much jazz, I need some rock to settle down with. When I've heard too much electric music, I switch to 18th/19th century stuff. And so on. By the way, I never found (perceived) arrogance to be such a problem in prog. There's more than enough arrogance among mainstream rock bands! What does sometimes annoy me, though, is that some prog has a lot of FRILLS (symphonic prog in particular). But even that could be remedied by listening to simpler prog, such as Anekdoten or Can.

fil karada wrote: The thing is that I really found it hard to get into prog ,altough after getting in theres no getting out IMO, and I'm trying to convert some of my friend to prog music and they also find it hard  to get in. (1 One of the things I've noticed it's that most people ,pop fans, give up once they see that a music has 7+ minutes long lol.     I think that (and this is really my opinion since I was once on "the other side") when a non-prog-music fan hears one classic track from prog bands (such as "roundabout", "close to the edge", "supper's ready") they get really bored because they find it repetitive in general ,(im obviously not saying that the constant tempo changes in "supper's ready" or other prog classic are boring, i'm just saying that they find the music repetitive in this way: oh good, another instrumental part, these guys must think they're the best, skip -.-) and they dont notice the details because they're used to commercial music where what is perfectly audible it's what you got. (2   But once on the prog side, you find it most rewardable to hear prog. You re-find some prog classics that didnt seem that good at first listen.   My point being: I dont think boring at all the pomposity of bands like ELP, because I only heard pop for some years, but I think people who haven't tried to get into prog dont want to because they think prog bands are arrogant and they find prog repetitive (!) IMOO (3

1) I see what you mean. I had a huge trouble making a friend of mine get into old school prog (he liked prog metal better), but once he got into it . . . MAN, THE GLORY OF ACTUALLY TALKING TO ANOTHER GUY THAT LIKES PROG AND IS NOT 20-30 YEARS OLDER THAN YOU! (specially where i live).

2) Also know what you mean. My brother and that friend of mine brothers can't stand long songs. Well, too bad for them, i like my albums 3 1/2 hours long and with 9 songs(or less).

3) Well, don't you worry: as sure as there is a God you will never get tired of PROG!

I always make sure I have a mix of music styles in my CD player, to keep the music fresh. Then just to really make things interesting, I'll hit "random" so it will play tracks from all the CDs. Nothing like hearing a blues song followed by a metal song, followed by a prog song, followed by a folk song to make sure you're paying attention.
 As for the arrogance, I think it's more of a personality trait then a profession.

The music I listen to:

65% classified as prog
15% kinda weird pop/rock (Roxy Music, Flaming Lips, etc)
10% regular classic rock or modern rock (Led Zeppelin, RHCP, Incubus, Smashing Pumpkins
10% Misc electronica (Aphex Twin, Massive Attack, etc)

CCVP wrote: the music i listen to: 90% classified as prog 10% classical metal and rock, jazz, extreme metal and some other stuff maybe i should be open minded, but i just cant

I don't listen to prog enough these days....

CCVP wrote: The Wizard wrote: I don't listen to prog enough these days....   It's not that I don't like it, it's just that my music taste has expanded a lot and i've realized the world is full of good music outside of prog. It seems like when I was prog obsessed I judged music by how 'proggy' is was and didn't listen for the sake of the music itself. Now a lot of stuff I couldn't appreciate back then I love and some of the music I liked back then just dosn't hold up. well, thats not exactly my problem. I listen to basically anything that i like. The thing is that most things i like are classified as prog. . .