Pain of Salvation

Like an old school Queen fan would not listen to Queen II and A Night at the Opera because Hot Space sucks so much...

E-Dub wrote: CCVP wrote: stonebeard wrote: PoS don't tour America because of something with being registered and fingerprinted to do so. LOL, thank God i'm not in USA. That nazi warlord called George Dubya W Bush, the first dictator of USA, killer of civil rights (patriotic act, the reason PoS is not setting foot on US), starter of 2 needless wars, destroyer of the History of humanity (many archaeological sites were destroyed / sacked / robbed by american soldiers, Iraq population and robbers of all kind during the american invasion and occupation) and IDIOT don't let PoS play there because USA is living an exception regime. Basically its a military state, where population have no practical right and police can do whatever they want to you if they want. Keep this image fresh in your mind, Chief. If we're wanting to keep tabs on those entering into this country, I think it's justified.

Thats not justice, its revenge.

For most parts Im with CCVP, but I wouldnt go as far as saying the police can do whatever they want and its definitly not a military state. Having said that I think it´s hard for people in the USA takt a more objective point of view. This is not your world, you just cant do what ever you want and have 9/11 as the explanation for it. You just cant basically enter a country and flip it upside down, kill half the population, destroy homes cause you are mad.
Having said that I too cant take a more objective point and think with a USA mind. How 9/11 must have become to a shock. I can clearly remember the day it happend, I cant imagine how you people must have lived it. I must admit if I was a citizen of the USA I am sure I would think quite diferent than I do and would have probably not said what I just said. Thank God I am not, just not to be in that possition. Of course with this I mean no offence.

^ you Matias.  It is a war... and we got hit... but the thing that those in power don't realize ... never realized was is a war you can't fight with bombs and bullets... no more than the English couldn't beat us in the 18th century.. you can't kill an idea with bullets or violence.  We can kill .. kill and kill still more of these lunatics.. maybe even bag Bin Laden maybe some day.. and there will be someone else to replace them.

I am a college drop-out ..highly educated perhaps.. but I am not paid.. nor do I  spend my days being responsible for understanding this stuff.  That leads me to either of two conclusions...neither one all that appetizing about this administration.  Either they truly are too stupid not to know what most rational, thinking people know.. that this is a war we will never win with tanks, bullets, ships and planes.  History has proved that again.. and again.  Or the worse option.. that they do know what little ol' Micky knows.. and simply don't care.. and are advancing a policy.. their policy.. and using our troops.. their blood.. our money.. all the guise of fighting this so called war of terrorism.. yet it is not such.. it is a war for something else... be it access to oil... pure ideology of how the freedom and democracy can sooth the savage beasts... whatever. 

it isn't revenge...  we are advancing the goals and policies of this administration...  and pulling the wool over a good many people's peoples eyes who actually believe that those in power really gave a sh*t about any of those 3000 people.  Check to see how many of those in power have a child in uniform and are fighting this fight.

Edited by The T - April 22 2008 at 22:57

el böthy wrote: E-Dub wrote: Please, let's not revisit this. All of this was over and done with about two days ago. Me and CVVP are good and I've even contacted the thread's author because I know if one of my threads took this same course, I would be fairly hacked off. I think it's safe to say that this little chapter is closed and that the discussion should be on Pain Of Salvation. E I did not realize that this discussion was over, I apologize, I should have readed a bit more. But I want to end it with two little things. Micky, I dont know if you disagreed, bitched me or whatever jeje... but yes, I fully understand you and mostly agree. Stonebeard, how can you justify militaty actions cause the enemy has done it before? I guess the only bad guy is the one that starts the fight then. C´mon man, that´s too black and white, even childish. What they have done is horrible, yes I agree. But its no excuse for doing the same. You are the bigger country. having said all that (and waiting for some hate mail) , I got Scarsick... so far I really like it, Im listening to it for the second time. Scarsick, the song, is killer!!!! Among their best in my opinion. What I really like about the album is the anger in it! I sometimes miss that in prog metal, nice to see there is still some!

Not a problem, El.

E

stonebeard wrote: el böthy wrote: Stonebeard, how can you justify militaty actions cause the enemy has done it before? I guess the only bad guy is the one that starts the fight then. C´mon man, that´s too black and white, even childish. What they have done is horrible, yes I agree. But its no excuse for doing the same. You are the bigger country.     With this statement you misinterpret what I said. That Saddam Hussein killed thousands in his country before the Iraq War does not constitute invasion (in retrospect hardly anything did), but it goes to show that the US is not the one and only killer of Iraqis.   Look, we obviously f**ked up going into Iraq (but really, it was smokescreens by the government and ineptitude on the media; the general population cannot be blamed too much), but we're in there now and it is a predicament. What the US wants to do is to get everyone to stop fighting so it can get out and maybe save face. The US isn't there to kill Iraqis. The most convincing ulterior motive I've heard is that the military-industrial complex wants to keep the war going for as long as possible to reap in profits, but this could all end if the insurgents stopped killing soldiers and the different factions stopped fighting each other for power. The casualties of innocent Iraqi civilians is a tragic loss, but it could all be avoided at the current moment (let alone for awhile that it could have been avoided altogether if we didn't invade, although Saddam would still be in power, whihc would mean more secret deaths and less open warfare) if Iraqi insurgents and inflammatory forces from Iran, Syria, Al Qeida etc. would stop fueling the fire. If the US leaves now, even more chaos will ensue, causing more innocents to be killed. One could blame America for everything since the invasion, and many do just out of a natural reaction, but the point is the insurgents do not have qualms about killing civilians, the US army does. There are usually strict reprocussions for f**k-ups in military operations (a trial is underway right now, for instance), and I doubt the insurgents have any such accountability for their recruits who kill 30 shoppers with a carbomb. They are there to get America out so that either A) they can take control of Iraq, or B) an outside nation can puppeteer Iraq into doing what it wants. To make the US leave, they create chaos and fuel tensions between Sunnis and Shias. Right now, the primary killers of Iraqi civilians are the insurgents, plain and simple. No other way about it.

Ok, I see your point. and yes, obviously its not the fault of the people, but of the goverment. I still think the USA is doing more wrong than right just by being in Irak. But lets not argue anymore, cause I doubt you´ll change your mind and I my. Let´s talk about better things. Politics just brings out the worst in people

Scarsick pwns.

How did this turn into another thread about American imperalism?

el böthy wrote: Malvinas was even worst. At least the USA can win... if that matters at this point. Malvinas, although ours, was the biggest mistake Argentina ever did... well, maybe Palermo´s record for not making a goal in three, THREE, penaltys... but aftet that, definitly Malvinas

Now i sense that this thread is going to become a football thread LOL


Edited by CCVP - April 26 2008 at 15:52

CCVP wrote: el böthy wrote: Malvinas was even worst. At least the USA can win... if that matters at this point. Malvinas, although ours, was the biggest mistake Argentina ever did... well, maybe Palermo´s record for not making a goal in three, THREE, penaltys... but aftet that, definitly Malvinas Now i sense that this thread is going to become a football thread LOL

Yay!

Let's go Gunners.

KoL was refering to the Woolwich Arsenal, also known as The Gunners (see his avitar)