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Direct Link To This Post Topic: What makes a review a good review?
    Posted: May 07 2008 at 21:49
Originally posted by ClassicRocker ClassicRocker wrote:

Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:


This is random, but Laplace, stop referring to yourself as "this reviewer" and learn to say I.  Forget what your writing teachers told you, it will read better, and it's a review, so it's subjective anyway.

Many people, including myself, find 3rd person preferable. That is, unless the review includes some sort of narrative or personal anecdote. If it isn't one of those exceptions, then I find the review reads better sans first person. (I'm not quite sure what "it's a review, so it's subjective anyway" is supposed to mean).

Keep your reviews the way you always write them lappy. Very high quality (or entertainment value). Clap

Sorry, I just felt the need to respond to that.


amen, brother!

Clap


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2008 at 21:46
Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:


This is random, but Laplace, stop referring to yourself as "this reviewer" and learn to say I.  Forget what your writing teachers told you, it will read better, and it's a review, so it's subjective anyway.

Many people, including myself, find 3rd person preferable. That is, unless the review includes some sort of narrative or personal anecdote. If it isn't one of those exceptions, then I find the review reads better sans first person. (I'm not quite sure what "it's a review, so it's subjective anyway" is supposed to mean).

Keep your reviews the way you always write them lappy. Very high quality (or entertainment value). Clap

Sorry, I just felt the need to respond to that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2008 at 16:50
1) Do you like song x song descriptions, a play by play of each track?    Or do you find this repetitive and boring?

I generally like this when I already have the album. I like to read other opinions about particular tracks, especially albums that have few reviews. The best however is when a reviewer is describing the album and mentions tracks and maybe what he/she considers a highlight or a flaw while talking about the album. Song x song descriptions can get too long if the reviewer gets carried away (heck, it even happened to me haha)


2) Is it better to not go track by track, but to just provide a general overview of the listening experience, speaking more broadly about the songs as a collection rather than individually?

I like a middle ground. Even fantastically written reviews (like Rico's) can make me lose interest when there's not a single mention of one track. I need a few tracks mentioned so maybe I can look them up on youtube. An exception is when the album is not very varied, like an Iron Maiden album or an ambient album, etc.

3) Are comparisons to other bands helpful or is it ultimately unfair because each band is so unique?

Only if the comparisons make sense. I don't wanna read "Opeth is better than Tangerine Dream, so Br00tal"

4) Quotes?  Historical facts?   Comments from the band about the music?  Good to include or not?

Comments from the band? useful when they are old albums to avoid band opinion bias. I don't like historical facts unless they make you understand the music or lyrics.

5) What else do you want the reviewer to include or not include?

When some reviewers give scores to specific songs and then get the average and put the 1-5 star choice. I've seen one who rated the 3 long tracks of Pink Floyd - Animals all 5-star tracks and because the tiny tiny acoustic ditty that surrounds them got 3-stars each, the album ended up with 4 stars. Wacko

_I also don't want any acronyms, unless the acronym is defined the first time that acronym is used in the review.

6) Short, medium, or long reviews?   Assuming all are good quality, do you prefer a concise 1-2 paragraph review or a mammoth mini-book?  Or in-between?


Medium. 2-4 paragraphs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 22:34
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

More great stuff there to digest...thanks guys.  Ghost...point 3 gets a big YUP from me.  TGM, had not considered that half stars were unprofessional, sometimes its very hard to pick between 3 and 4 especially.  I'll have to think about  that.  Debrewguy, all good points except your last one: The obvious superiority of Italian prog over the other lesser genres MUST be pointed out early and oftenLOL


Which makes Ange, Klaatu & Split Enz all the more amazing as the exception to the rule that RPI rules.

P.S. Me and my 40 RPI albums agree with you re : genre superiority. Tongue And that's not counting the PFM & Le Orme collections.


Ange...hell yeah!  I still haven't heard Emile yet though so I  have that treat to look forward to!!

Klaatu, too. Hope is a perfect merging of rock group & orchestra. Also please note that filming began in Vancouver, British Columbia on December 12, 2007 on the remake of the 1951 classic sci-fi flick "Day The Earth Stood Still" starring Keanu Reeves, Jennifer Connelly, Kathy Bates, and Jaden Smith. There's a push to have Klaatu's music use as the soundtrack. Especially "Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft", which would be a perfect fit, given the story.
Klaatu.org has the details on its' main page. Thanks for all your support ahead of time.
Hey, too many people complain about Prog's lack of mainstream visibility. Here's a chance. Let's take it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 19:21
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Obviouslyrunningallyoursentencestogetherintoonehumongoparargaph.


I'm sorry, I should have used more color and boldness, etc.
Obviouslyrunningallyoursentencestogetherintoonehumongoparargaph...

OK seriously, it's all about perspective...
You have to put some you into the review.
Of course, if you happen to be a jerk, maybe that's not such a good idea.


Edited by Slartibartfast - April 28 2008 at 19:25
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 19:18
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

More great stuff there to digest...thanks guys.  Ghost...point 3 gets a big YUP from me.  TGM, had not considered that half stars were unprofessional, sometimes its very hard to pick between 3 and 4 especially.  I'll have to think about  that.  Debrewguy, all good points except your last one: The obvious superiority of Italian prog over the other lesser genres MUST be pointed out early and oftenLOL


Which makes Ange, Klaatu & Split Enz all the more amazing as the exception to the rule that RPI rules.

P.S. Me and my 40 RPI albums agree with you re : genre superiority. Tongue And that's not counting the PFM & Le Orme collections.


Ange...hell yeah!  I still haven't heard Emile yet though so I  have that treat to look forward to!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 17:44
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

More great stuff there to digest...thanks guys.  Ghost...point 3 gets a big YUP from me.  TGM, had not considered that half stars were unprofessional, sometimes its very hard to pick between 3 and 4 especially.  I'll have to think about  that.  Debrewguy, all good points except your last one: The obvious superiority of Italian prog over the other lesser genres MUST be pointed out early and oftenLOL


Which makes Ange, Klaatu & Split Enz all the more amazing as the exception to the rule that RPI rules.

P.S. Me and my 40 RPI albums agree with you re : genre superiority. Tongue And that's not counting the PFM & Le Orme collections.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 15:36
Raffa, good stuff.  Lyrics are another item it was good to touch on.  And us English-only types really appreciate it when you multi-linguals translate a bit for us in your Italian, French, etc reviews.  Of couse we don't expect complete translation, but even a bit helps with knowing something about the themes. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 09:00
Great thread, James!Clap Now here's my answers...

1) Do you like song x song descriptions, a play by play of each track?    Or do you find this repetitive and boring?
I wouldn't go so far as to say 'repetitive' or 'boring', but this is not something that usually captures my attention, and it is definitely something I avoid when I write reviews myself - especially if it involves listing the tracks as some people do.
 
2) Is it better to not go track by track, but to just provide a general overview of the listening experience, speaking more broadly about the songs as a collection rather than individually?
It depends on the album. Sometimes, especially when reviewing an album I know very well, I will touch upon every track (though not necessarily in order). On other occasions, I will only mention the tracks that, in my personal opinions, stand out from the rest (either in positive or in negative). As a reader, I prefer a middle ground - that is, identifying the highpoints of the album while at the same time treating the songs as a collection, and considering how well they work 'together'.

3) Are comparisons to other bands helpful or is it ultimately unfair because each band is so unique?
 
I think such comparisons are inevitable in a way, and they can even be helpful (especially to readers who would like to learn more about a given album) if put in a constructive way, and not just like "Track X sounds like band Y".

4) Quotes?  Historical facts?   Comments from the band about the music?  Good to include or not?
 
Definitely yes. I do often include them, and try to integrate them successfully in the fabric of my review, usually in the introductory paragraphs.

5) What else do you want the reviewer to include or not include?
 
Snippets from the lyrics, if particularly meaningful to the understanding of a given song (this is again something I do relatively often). Humorous comments are also something I appreciate a lot (not if they sound vitriolic or over the top, though - I've seen some examples here I would definitely not recommend following).

6) Short, medium, or long reviews?   Assuming all are good quality, do you prefer a concise 1-2 paragraph review or a mammoth mini-book?  Or in-between?
 
Definitely in-between. Reviews that are too long don't take attention span into account, and sometimes feel as if they weren't written with the reader in mind, but merely as a means of self-gratification for the writer. On the other hand, concise reviews may not offer enough information to a reader looking for a recommendation.
 
Sorry if I referred to my own reviews a bit too often... I know they are not perfect, but I try to write them with my readership in mind, and I hope they are sometimes helpful.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 08:11
Obviouslyrunningallyoursentencestogetherintoonehumongoparargaph.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 17:59
More great stuff there to digest...thanks guys.  Ghost...point 3 gets a big YUP from me.  TGM, had not considered that half stars were unprofessional, sometimes its very hard to pick between 3 and 4 especially.  I'll have to think about  that.  Debrewguy, all good points except your last one: The obvious superiority of Italian prog over the other lesser genres MUST be pointed out early and oftenLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 17:35
I like the following, though they don't necessarily need to all appear in the same review :
Some personal insight - this album/music I play because/reminds of/affects me etc ...
Some musical comparisons - Similarities, originality , influences, or influence on other bands.
Some technical notes - tempo changes / arrangements / instrumental skills or lack thereof ...
Some out and out subjective opinions - this is my fave band, my fave album (or vice versa) as long as there is an explanation as to why.
Some objective caveats - I'm a fanboy / I hate this genre / limited knowledge / just listened to it 'cause others have said it's great, yadda yadda, yadda ...
Some expertise or enthusiasm - 'nuff said there
Some agreement with Debrewguy as to the awesomeness of Ange's Emile Jacotey, Klaatu's Hope, Split Enz' TIme & Tide.
Of no interest - any elitism, i.e. "I and a select intellectually superior few are the only ones to fully inderstand/appreciate what a masterpiece this is. Pity the poor unfortunate multitudes who don't know any better"
Of even less interest - "getting it"
And of least interest - claiming genre or sub-genre superiority or inferiority. Tell me about the album in question. Genre references are nice when placing the music in context, but are not necessary.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 13:59
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

As someone who writes reviews, I'd like to know more about what readers are looking for in reviews that they read.  Please reply only if you are a regular review reader.  There's no need to inform us if you think "reviews suck." 

1) Do you like song x song descriptions, a play by play of each track?    Or do you find this repetitive and boring?

2) Is it better to not go track by track, but to just provide a general overview of the listening experience, speaking more broadly about the songs as a collection rather than individually?

I write song by song descriptions, but really it depends on the reviewer. I feel that reviewers don't need to go into every single song to explain their opinions of the album, so long as they engage with the music. I enjoy reading song by song reviews, but if they seem very rushed opinions, as they sometimes do, they can be jarring.

HOWEVER, I really dislike reviews that have no basis in the songs or the music. If a review *only* deals with overall feel and avoids the individual songs, I'll usually ignore it, because I could write a review like that without hearing the music and because it doesn't help me to really understand why the reviewer likes it.


3) Are comparisons to other bands helpful or is it ultimately unfair because each band is so unique?

It really depends on the band and album in question. Links between bands are always interesting,  and if a band seems derivative, it often ends up feeling very harmless to me. However, comparisons should not form the backbone of the review unless they are actually very relevant to the music.

4) Quotes?  Historical facts?   Comments from the band about the music?  Good to include or not?

Quotes are fine, even appropriate. The band's thoughts are often interesting and relevant, and if they help explain the reviewer's point, then it's really useful. Similarly, an appropriate historical circumstance might be useful to back up a reviewer's ideas.

However, I see way too many reviews that seem to have their judgment grounded in historical circumstances and not the music that an album contains (especially ELP's works volumes). Quite often in such reviews the facts aren't actually even basically researched, just assumed.

Basically, fine so long as the review is not based on them with no interest in the music.

5) What else do you want the reviewer to include or not include?

I want a review, basically, to give me something that I didn't understand before about the music or to explain whether I think I should buy it. Hence, say, a review that deals intensely or originally with a specific aspect (say, the bass-playing, the change in line-up, or even the artwork or the concept) of a very well-known album would be more interesting to me than most song-by-song reviews.

For not including, calculating the rating by a song average or giving a half star seems very unprofessional and essentially pointless, so I don't like it. There's little point in examining song length or musicians involved UNLESS the reviewer ties it to a point or an idea, however basic that idea is. I can find out who's on the album by reading the album's entry on PA.


6) Short, medium, or long reviews?   Assuming all are good quality, do you prefer a concise 1-2 paragraph review or a mammoth mini-book?  Or in-between?

Whichever gets the point across. A short review that hits the nail on the head or really adds something new (see one of the Bald pair's Pulse review for an example) is just perfect. A sprawling review is generally going to have to include more analysis and is more difficult to write without actually examining the music, so I'd probably prefer to have more of those.

Thanks...I'm sure this has been done before, but I want responses from current visitors, not ones from a year ago.  Cheers!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 12:59
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

As someone who writes reviews, I'd like to know more about what readers are looking for in reviews that they read.  Please reply only if you are a regular review reader.  There's no need to inform us if you think "reviews suck." 

1) Do you like song x song descriptions, a play by play of each track?    Or do you find this repetitive and boring?

2) Is it better to not go track by track, but to just provide a general overview of the listening experience, speaking more broadly about the songs as a collection rather than individually?

3) Are comparisons to other bands helpful or is it ultimately unfair because each band is so unique?

4) Quotes?  Historical facts?   Comments from the band about the music?  Good to include or not?

5) What else do you want the reviewer to include or not include?

6) Short, medium, or long reviews?   Assuming all are good quality, do you prefer a concise 1-2 paragraph review or a mammoth mini-book?  Or in-between?




Thanks...I'm sure this has been done before, but I want responses from current visitors, not ones from a year ago.  Cheers!
Smile
 
1  & 2.  It really depends on the album.  For example I couldn't see the point in providing a track by track review of Red Queen to Gryphon Three, because it all sounds more or less the same.  I'd say describe particular tracks if there is something striking or different from the rest of the album about them if you think it's important.  Sometimes I do track by track, more often I do not.
 
3.  If the comparisons are SPECIFIC, I think they are helpful.   Saying that Alan Holdsworth's playing has the accuracy and adventuresomeness that we expect from Robert Fripp is good.   Saying that Starcastle is a Yes clone is not.
 
4.  All of that is good if it is relevant and entertaining.
 
5.  Sometimes it is very important to put an album in it's historical context.  Something like Days of Future Passed or 90125 just cries out for somebody to explain why these were turning points.
 
6.  Short to medium.   Two or three paragraphs should be enough to explain what is unique about a particular album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2008 at 00:12
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

Honestly, I think it's important to avoid track-by-track reviewing and contextual statements about the band's situation and line-up. But what I really look for in a review comes down to this:

1. someone who has a new perspective on an album
2. someone who knows who to express that perspective

and all other preferences bow down to these two, since if a reviewer just *flows* then I'll read anything they write, however long, idiosyncratic and tangential. Of course, I don't always enjoy every "character" review since some people just manage to sound so *regional* that it turns me away from their writing style.

Nor am I fan of people with bland opinions o:) a good reviewer polarises and expresses their opinions in a way that shocks but doesn't insult.

Finnforest, you shouldn't worry because your reviews are good. =)


This is random, but Laplace, stop referring to yourself as "this reviewer" and learn to say I.  Forget what your writing teachers told you, it will read better, and it's a review, so it's subjective anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2008 at 00:01
Oh this is just gold you guys.  Thanks so much for taking the time.  I can tell you I find your words very helpful.  To answer some of my own questions, I've been feeling about the same thing as you guys.  As someone who has frequently tried to do a track by track I have found that sometimes it is not very practical, like lately when reviewing NIL I noticed there were like 30 tracks.  I can see why Jake says' he would just stop reading.  OTOH, there are some Italian titles where, because I'm enamored with the genre, I'm able to give a pretty vivid description of all the madness on those old records and so I have to try to relay EVERY thing because I'm excited. 

Also, if there are few reviews for an album, I will write more.  If I'm writing about something with 1000 reviews already, I may just give a brief opinion. 

I very much agree with the comments to go with your gut feeling, to write the length that seems required and not more, and to write as though telling a friend about the album.  Those are great pointers.

I once argued in favor of objective reviews, but have come to the conclusion that most people want subjective, so I attempt to provide both.    I will clearly say what I think, I'm not afraid to be harsh if I think something sucks or glowing if I love it.  But I still insist on some objectivity.  If I hate something, but recognize value in the playing, historic nature, etc, I'm going to say so.  I think a quality review will give both views to the reader; both the reviewers thumbs up/down, but also a bit of a wider view as well.  No reviewing with blinders on. 

I really appreciate this and will take your comments to heart.  I'm not interesting in cranking out a bunch of sh*t for the numbers.  I want to write something of value that people might enjoy reading.  I want to make them laugh with a good line sometimes, or share something person.  I don't want to be completely dry.  So I keep working at it.   They can't all be perfect reviews and sometimes I'm not happy with certain ones.  But others I do think have value.  If I felt unable to hit at least a few home runs, I'd throw in the towel just like that.  So thanks for corking my bat.  Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2008 at 19:35
all great points..  my pet peeve is when someone approaches a review as if it were their private journal;  'Dear diary, I just don't like Jethro Tull, is there something wrong with me?"    ..just my opinion of course
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2008 at 14:52
Honestly, I think it's important to avoid track-by-track reviewing and contextual statements about the band's situation and line-up. But what I really look for in a review comes down to this:

1. someone who has a new perspective on an album
2. someone who knows who to express that perspective

and all other preferences bow down to these two, since if a reviewer just *flows* then I'll read anything they write, however long, idiosyncratic and tangential. Of course, I don't always enjoy every "character" review since some people just manage to sound so *regional* that it turns me away from their writing style.

Nor am I fan of people with bland opinions o:) a good reviewer polarises and expresses their opinions in a way that shocks but doesn't insult.

Finnforest, you shouldn't worry because your reviews are good. =)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2008 at 14:35

1) Do you like song x song descriptions, a play by play of each track?    Or do you find this repetitive and boring?

It depends really. Like others have said this is only really effective for albums that don't have many tracks such as EPs, but it does become boring and repetitive if the person just starts to repeat themselves. (I'm guilty of this at times Embarrassed)

Really though, I find nothing wrong with a review that touches on all the tracks but doesn't go hugely into detail about each one.

2) Is it better to not go track by track, but to just provide a general overview of the listening experience, speaking more broadly about the songs as a collection rather than individually?


Generally if I know the band but not the album I'll look for a track by track, if I don't know the band at all then I'll look for something that's more of an overview. I think overviews work better.

3) Are comparisons to other bands helpful or is it ultimately unfair because each band is so unique?


I've always liked comparisons. Band X is like Y meets Z is always INCREDIBLY helpful if the comparison is accurate. X is like Y except with a hint of this is also good.

4) Quotes?  Historical facts?   Comments from the band about the music?  Good to include or not?

I always love stuff like this. It's true that it can become redundant if that's all the review is about, but as a paragraph or two about the album before the review about the music it's always nice to see. I like mah music trivia anyways Smile

5) What else do you want the reviewer to include or not include?

Personally -- I kind of like it when the reviewer adds a personal touch to the review. A subjective review is alright if you know the person's taste... but I'm more talking about how the person came about having the album or why they like it (Life experiences,ect.)... just lets me know where the reviewer is coming from.

6) Short, medium, or long reviews?   Assuming all are good quality, do you prefer a concise 1-2 paragraph review or a mammoth mini-book?  Or in-between?

It depends on the album and the reviewer, really. I once wrote a review for Blue Oyster Cult's Imaginos which was about 3 pages long on Microsoft Word... and I can't even go back to proof read it because it's too freaking long! Also, if I don't really know the band then a long review is not going to fly with me. However, if I'm really looking to get into the band then I might just look for a really long review.

I'll always read short reviews because they're short and quick to read. Unfortunately, they don't usually make me interested in the music. Very few people are really REALLY good at the short reviews. However, there's been a couple times when it's great.

Medium is really the best. A review that's a good 4-6 paragraphs is ideal (imo). Not too long that it'll take me forever t read and not too short that there's no substance.





Great thread! Thumbs%20Up

You really forced me to go back and read over some of my recent reviews... Embarrassed Turns out some of them are still alright!

Hope my response was helpful!


Edited by King By-Tor - April 25 2008 at 14:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2008 at 13:51
I think that just about any of those characteristics can be good in a review except a track-by-track breakdown.  As soon as I see someone start to go track-by-track I stop reading.  

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