Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - UFO's. Do you believe?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedUFO's. Do you believe?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>
Author
Message
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65616
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 03:55
leave it to Jim to find the gas-related issues in just about anything


Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 04:09
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

I believe in UFO, I've seen them live in the 80s.LOL
 
I don't believe in UFOs 'though, if by UFO you mean visitors from another planet.  Leaving aside any so called conspiracy by the US government we can now see so far and in such detail into space and we have not yet found any evidence of another civilisation.  We have not yet found any way by which Star Trek style travel can happen and even if it could we can now see distances into space whereby even with light drives or whatever it would still take generations to travel these distances.  In fact the deeper physicists go into particle physics the less likely it looks that we could ever travel such distances.
 
Strange lights and sightings in deserted areas of the USA are far more likely explained as US military experiments than by alien visitors.  Why would any visitors, after travelling so far, just mess about over some empty area doing aerobatics and putting on a light show?  If they wanted to make contact then surely they would do just that, they'd have nothing to fear from us if they have the technology to get here.  If they wanted to observe us covertly then they simply wouldn't be visible.
 
It's all conspiracy theories I'm afraid.  Some people just want to believe.


Nicely put, Neil.  They match my sentiments exactly. Clap
Back to Top
Wilcey View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 04:29
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

 
It's all conspiracy theories I'm afraid.  Some people just want to believe.
 
The world is run politically based on what some people believe, (religion) which can be fitted into the box you have just outlined. What is 'real' for one person is not necessarily 'real' for some one else. Some people believe and some people don't.
 
I totally believe in other life forms, I believe they have and do visit us. I believe that we are not as evolved as we like to think. Yeah great you can buy an i-phone or dial up broadband from the top of a bus, but do you know the name of your neighbour and do you know if the old fella down the street is cold at night?  As a species I think we have a long way to go, we havn't got there because we are held back by prejudice and self motivation.
 
But I do really believe in other life totally and utterly. I don't know if I believe in all the UFO theories/sightings, there are a few cranks out there,  but I really believe that we are in the petri dish of something much much bigger.
 
Rx
Back to Top
Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 07:00
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

I remember hearing a few years back the Mexican Government saw some weird things once and said they felt they were UFO's.


You mean those reddish-orange fireballs in formation caught on tape at night by a pilot (can't remember if he was from the air force or the police) chasing drug smugglers? I've read a lot about that one.


Yup, that was the one.


Hmmm. I remember reading an article explaining it as the headlights of a truck convoy that a screw-up with the camera made look like they were up in the sky, but I can't find it right now.
Back to Top
StyLaZyn View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 08:19

Steven Hawking chimes in.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352068,00.html

Primitive Alien Life May Exist, Stephen Hawking Says

Tuesday , April 22, 2008

AP

WASHINGTON — 

Famed astrophysicist Stephen Hawking has been thinking a lot about the cosmic question, "Are we alone?"

The answer is probably not, he says.

If there is life elsewhere in the universe, Hawking asks why haven't we stumbled onto some alien broadcasts in space, maybe something like "alien quiz shows?"

Hawking's comments were part of a lecture at George Washington University on Monday in honor of NASA's 50th anniversary. He theorized that there are possible answers to whether there is extraterrestrial life.

One option is that there likely isn't life elsewhere. Or maybe there is intelligent life elsewhere, but when it gets smart enough to send signals into space, it also is smart enough to make destructive nuclear weapons.

Hawking said he prefers the third option:

"Primitive life is very common and intelligent life is fairly rare," he then quickly added: "Some would say it has yet to occur on earth."

So should you worry about aliens? Alien abduction claims come from "weirdos" and are unlikely.

However, because alien life might not have DNA like us, Hawking warned: "Watch out if you would meet an alien. You could be infected with a disease with which you have no resistance."

The 66-year-old British cosmologist, who suffers from ALS, or Lou Gehrig's disease, and must speak through a mechanical device, believes "if the human race is to continue for another million years, we will have to boldly go where no one has gone before."

Hawking compared people who don't want to spend money on human space exploration to those who opposed the journey of Christopher Columbus in 1492.

"The discovery of the New World made a profound difference to the old. Just think we wouldn't have had a Big Mac or KFC."

Back to Top
tuxon View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 09:08
Stephen Hawkings is kicking in open doors.
 
why can't pigs ride a bicicle, because they have no thumb to ring the bell.
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
Back to Top
Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 11:26
I'm not surprised by what Hawking says... last week I saw an episode of National Geographic's Is It Real? about life on Mars. One of the people interviewed was a biologist named Penny Boston who in the lab  had recreated the same conditions that there are on Mars' surface (radiation, atmosphere etc.) and found out that a lot of micro-organisms from Earth can survive with no problems on Mars. More complex life, though, requires an environment far more similar to Earth to the point that it's practically identical .Cool

Of course, that makes me wonder... does this mean that intelligent alien life would be so different from us that we wouldn't be able to communicate with it or in a strange way justify how most of the aliens in Star Trek look just like humans but with bumpy foreheads? Confused
Back to Top
crimhead View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 12:34
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

Stephen Hawkings is kicking in open doors.
 
why can't pigs ride a bicicle, because they have no thumb to ring the bell.


could be the lack of sense of balance as well, and that someone hasn't built a pig friendly bicycle. We have water skiing squirrels.
Back to Top
Neil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 04 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1497
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 03:43
Originally posted by prog-chick prog-chick wrote:

Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

 
It's all conspiracy theories I'm afraid.  Some people just want to believe.
 
The world is run politically based on what some people believe, (religion) which can be fitted into the box you have just outlined. What is 'real' for one person is not necessarily 'real' for some one else. Some people believe and some people don't.
 
I totally believe in other life forms, I believe they have and do visit us. I believe that we are not as evolved as we like to think. Yeah great you can buy an i-phone or dial up broadband from the top of a bus, but do you know the name of your neighbour and do you know if the old fella down the street is cold at night?  As a species I think we have a long way to go, we havn't got there because we are held back by prejudice and self motivation.
 
But I do really believe in other life totally and utterly. I don't know if I believe in all the UFO theories/sightings, there are a few cranks out there,  but I really believe that we are in the petri dish of something much much bigger.
 
Rx
 
I didn't say that there wasn't any other life out there.  The vast infinity of space makes that fact almost inevitable.  The scientific facts that we possess (and I accept that we don't know everything) suggest that any other intelligent lifeforms that we could see and interact with would be similar to us and would need similar environments.  We've not detected other suitable environments within light years of Earth.  There are only so many chemical elements available and we can detect the same building blocks on other stars and planets in other galaxies and solar systems so the chemistry of our universe suggests that complex life would be similar to that on earth.  There may be other forms of "life" although not organic creatures as we recognise, in other dimensions of the physical universe that we cannot see or access.  We don't know and probably never will and it's quite likely that if they exist they can't detect us and never will. 
 
However we can be almost 100% certain that aliens like those seen in Independence Day or War of the Worlds do not exist and cannot visit earth in flying saucers. 
 
That's my belief anyway.Wink


Edited by Heavyfreight - April 23 2008 at 03:47
When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
Back to Top
Gamemako View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 21:46
*Sigh*

Let's review:

1. The universe is not as big or old as you think. 6 billion years.

2. It took billions of years for life to develop on Earth.

3. By chance.

4. The conditions that led to the development were extremely happenstance. A fortuitous amalgam of reducing atmospheres and abundant water. It's a lot more than distance from a star that matters.

5. Conditions in which life can survive typically do not support the origin of life. That is, if we were exposed to the atmosphere where life was born, we would die instantaneously.

6. Information cannot travel faster than light based on relativity.

7. Even if life existed, the likelihood it survived and somehow traveled through space (taking millions of years) is yet more minuscule.

8. It wouldn't be the first time Steven Hawking was proven wrong.

100% of UFOs have very simple explanations, but people still deny them. Flares falling below a mountain, supported by a superimposed video of the mountain, and people still claim it was a UFO. I watched an entire show about UFOs, completely dumbfounded that the show was even aired. It focused on mystical "rods" captured on film, which the human eye could not see. Anybody with half a f**king brain could tell it was a camera artifact, and this was proven (finally) at the end of the show, yet some claimed they were still UFOs.

People WANT to believe. UFOs are a religion. A bloody cosmic teapot. People will see UFOs -- the brain misinterpreting light, most often -- just as some will see the face of Jesus in a Cheeto.
Hail Eris!
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65616
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 21:55
 ^ nice

my favorite is #8 LOL

Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 22:00


Oh no, they're coming for us!
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 04:19
Originally posted by James James wrote:



Oh no, they're coming for us!
"Oh dude, you can soooo see the string in that. Maaan, it's not even CGI!" Shocked Wink LOL
What?
Back to Top
Neil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 04 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1497
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 05:36
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:



Oh no, they're coming for us!
"Oh dude, you can soooo see the string in that. Maaan, it's not even CGI!" Shocked Wink LOL
 
No, you can clearly see the UFO in the background behind the rearmost mountain.LOL
When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 06:27
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

*Sigh*

Let's review:

1. The universe is not as big or old as you think. 6 billion years.

2. It took billions of years for life to develop on Earth.

3. By chance.

4. The conditions that led to the development were extremely happenstance. A fortuitous amalgam of reducing atmospheres and abundant water. It's a lot more than distance from a star that matters.

5. Conditions in which life can survive typically do not support the origin of life. That is, if we were exposed to the atmosphere where life was born, we would die instantaneously.

6. Information cannot travel faster than light based on relativity.

7. Even if life existed, the likelihood it survived and somehow traveled through space (taking millions of years) is yet more minuscule.

8. It wouldn't be the first time Steven Hawking was proven wrong.

100% of UFOs have very simple explanations, but people still deny them. Flares falling below a mountain, supported by a superimposed video of the mountain, and people still claim it was a UFO. I watched an entire show about UFOs, completely dumbfounded that the show was even aired. It focused on mystical "rods" captured on film, which the human eye could not see. Anybody with half a f**king brain could tell it was a camera artifact, and this was proven (finally) at the end of the show, yet some claimed they were still UFOs.

People WANT to believe. UFOs are a religion. A bloody cosmic teapot. People will see UFOs -- the brain misinterpreting light, most often -- just as some will see the face of Jesus in a Cheeto.

Some things need to be put in perspective here. The biggest mistake is to think  that life could only evolve under the conditions we have on earth and then marvel at the small chances for this to happen. It is rather the other way round: Life as we know it evolved the way it is because of the conditions we have here. Do you honestly think a kind of life could evolve that was not fit for the conditions of the planet we live on? No. But then you certainly don't have to marvel at the fact that all the right conditions for life to evolve existed on this planet. Sure, we have no idea what any other kind of life would look like; all we know is the DNA-based form of life that evolved on this planet. But does that really mean it is the only form of life that could exist? Not at all. In any case, to marvel at the fact that all the right conditions for life to evolve existed on this planet is putting the cart before the horse.


Edited by BaldFriede - April 24 2008 at 06:55


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 06:47
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't their possibly basic life (plants, fungi, or amoebas, perhaps) on meteorites that crash to earth?  If there's not, then apologies.
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 06:59
There have been claims of findings of primitive life forms on meteorites. It is, however, difficult to make sure those are not terrestrial life forms accumulated on the way through the atmosphere.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
Jim Garten View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 07:47
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The biggest mistake is to think  that life could only evolve under the conditions we have on earth and then marvel at the small chances for this to happen. It is rather the other way round: Life as we know it evolved the way it is because of the conditions we have here.


True - it's a common misconception by the believers among us that any other form of life which may or may not visit earth will come from an oxygen rich temperate planet similar to ours; this makes it easier to believe as the atmospheric conditions on this planet are our only real frame of reference. However, in an effectively infinite universe (even if it is only 6,000,000,000 years old) there can be/should be/are an infinite number of planets with an infinite number of variables in atmospheres - who knows what form/s of life could have evolved elsewhere? The idea that life can only be sustained by an atmosphere such as ours is extraordinarily narrow.

Having said that, however, I've shared a large tent with 15 other people at a festival, all of whom had been drinking beer & eating chilli sausages; it's a testament to the survivability of our species that we were able to tolerate the atmospheric conditions at all - I don't know the percentage of methane which occurs naturally in our biosphere, but it shouldn't be that high!

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
Back to Top
StyLaZyn View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 08:01
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

.....The biggest mistake is to think  that life could only evolve under the conditions we have on earth and then marvel at the small chances for this to happen....
 
ClapClapClapClapClap
Five clappies for a good point.
 
You point out the egocentrism of our kind. "If it isn't like us, then it can't exist." One needs to think of possibilities and not keep things black and white.
 
 
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2008 at 09:06
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

*Sigh*

Let's review:

1. The universe is not as big or old as you think. 6 billion years.

2. It took billions of years for life to develop on Earth.

3. By chance.

4. The conditions that led to the development were extremely happenstance. A fortuitous amalgam of reducing atmospheres and abundant water. It's a lot more than distance from a star that matters.

5. Conditions in which life can survive typically do not support the origin of life. That is, if we were exposed to the atmosphere where life was born, we would die instantaneously.

6. Information cannot travel faster than light based on relativity.

7. Even if life existed, the likelihood it survived and somehow traveled through space (taking millions of years) is yet more minuscule.

8. It wouldn't be the first time Steven Hawking was proven wrong.

100% of UFOs have very simple explanations, but people still deny them. Flares falling below a mountain, supported by a superimposed video of the mountain, and people still claim it was a UFO. I watched an entire show about UFOs, completely dumbfounded that the show was even aired. It focused on mystical "rods" captured on film, which the human eye could not see. Anybody with half a f**king brain could tell it was a camera artifact, and this was proven (finally) at the end of the show, yet some claimed they were still UFOs.

People WANT to believe. UFOs are a religion. A bloody cosmic teapot. People will see UFOs -- the brain misinterpreting light, most often -- just as some will see the face of Jesus in a Cheeto.

As to 6: Untrue. In fact it is one of the paradoxes of quantum physics that information seems to be able to travel faster than light (the Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky paradox). Only things that have mass can't reach or pass the speed of light.


Edited by BaldFriede - April 24 2008 at 09:11


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.225 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.