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sean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1155
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 12:42 |
kibble_alex wrote:
sean wrote:
Mourndark wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
don't get me started on guitarists' attitude... late for practises, overdominating, always want f**king solos, always want to write songs, aparently keyboard players are NOT COOL in a band... it disgusts me |
Also the inability to read anything that isn't tabbed, and sometimes even then...
I do have to remind mine occasionally that keyboards have their place, especially whenthe keys man is the only one who can sing, and I will be allowed out the front when I finish building my keytar!
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Luckily my band accepts the importance of the keys in the band , but I have had quite a bit of trouble with guitarists in the past.
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Oh my, haven't we all
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My first band, firstly, it was called "Triple Corpse Hammerblow" thanks to the guitarist, whose only goal was to be "metal" and so each song was nothing but guitar solos consisting of nothing but speed picking and tapping, and he couldn't even tune his guitar so it all sounded horrible.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:24 |
sean wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
sean wrote:
Mourndark wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
don't get me started on guitarists' attitude... late for practises, overdominating, always want f**king solos, always want to write songs, aparently keyboard players are NOT COOL in a band... it disgusts me |
Also the inability to read anything that isn't tabbed, and sometimes even then...
I do have to remind mine occasionally that keyboards have their place, especially whenthe keys man is the only one who can sing, and I will be allowed out the front when I finish building my keytar!
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Luckily my band accepts the importance of the keys in the band , but I have had quite a bit of trouble with guitarists in the past.
|
Oh my, haven't we all
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My first band, firstly, it was called "Triple Corpse Hammerblow" thanks to the guitarist, whose only goal was to be "metal" and so each song was nothing but guitar solos consisting of nothing but speed picking and tapping, and he couldn't even tune his guitar so it all sounded horrible.
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Yeah, I've had the same experiences. Keyboard is a much more sophisticated and melodic instrument, which is why it is IMO a necessity in every band!
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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sean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1155
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Posted: April 07 2008 at 13:26 |
kibble_alex wrote:
sean wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
sean wrote:
Mourndark wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
don't get me started on guitarists' attitude... late for practises, overdominating, always want f**king solos, always want to write songs, aparently keyboard players are NOT COOL in a band... it disgusts me |
Also the inability to read anything that isn't tabbed, and sometimes even then...
I do have to remind mine occasionally that keyboards have their place, especially whenthe keys man is the only one who can sing, and I will be allowed out the front when I finish building my keytar!
|
Luckily my band accepts the importance of the keys in the band , but I have had quite a bit of trouble with guitarists in the past.
|
Oh my, haven't we all
|
My first band, firstly, it was called "Triple Corpse Hammerblow" thanks to the guitarist, whose only goal was to be "metal" and so each song was nothing but guitar solos consisting of nothing but speed picking and tapping, and he couldn't even tune his guitar so it all sounded horrible.
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Yeah, I've had the same experiences. Keyboard is a much more sophisticated and melodic instrument, which is why it is IMO a necessity in every band!
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Look at bands like VdGG and ELP, they're fine without guitars, yet guitarists have to always be the centre of attention.
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Zitro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
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Posted: April 08 2008 at 08:09 |
I have around 2-3 years of experience with keyboards and 1 year with guitars. Lately I'm seldom playing but when I am, I am writing music or every once in a while, recording a cover song. I write music in a classical way with a bit of rock and prog song structures and time signatures (I sometimes do rhythms so bizarre that I can't even figure out the time signatures myself, though one was 23/8). The songs are instrumental.
My main influences are Rick Wakeman, Tomas Bodin, Classical composers like Mozart/Beethoven, and Final Fantasy music composer Nobuo Uematsu.
www.myspace.com/hernysmusica. If it's still in there, "Bel-2" shows most of my styles in less than 3 minutes, "Ardent Mistrust" is a 'Godspeed You Black Emperor-wannabe', and the Growing ups 1/2 prog rock tracks with many twists and turns, especially the 2nd one. Also of note (if i don't take it out) is the sample of the 10min Crime vs Crime and the 2nd video in my profile which is an incredibly silly song math frustration with "catchy in a bad way" choruses
Edited by Zitro - April 08 2008 at 08:19
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: April 17 2008 at 08:14 |
sean wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
sean wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
sean wrote:
Mourndark wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
don't get me started on guitarists' attitude... late for practises, overdominating, always want f**king solos, always want to write songs, aparently keyboard players are NOT COOL in a band... it disgusts me |
Also the inability to read anything that isn't tabbed, and sometimes even then...
I do have to remind mine occasionally that keyboards have their place, especially whenthe keys man is the only one who can sing, and I will be allowed out the front when I finish building my keytar!
|
Luckily my band accepts the importance of the keys in the band , but I have had quite a bit of trouble with guitarists in the past.
|
Oh my, haven't we all
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My first band, firstly, it was called "Triple Corpse Hammerblow" thanks to the guitarist, whose only goal was to be "metal" and so each song was nothing but guitar solos consisting of nothing but speed picking and tapping, and he couldn't even tune his guitar so it all sounded horrible.
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Yeah, I've had the same experiences. Keyboard is a much more sophisticated and melodic instrument, which is why it is IMO a necessity in every band!
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Look at bands like VdGG and ELP, they're fine without guitars, yet guitarists have to always be the centre of attention.
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Prrecisely, I always looked at guitar as a rhythm instrument anyway, I mean look at Count Basie's big band pieces, or most Tool songs. Both Freddie Green and Adam Jones are brilliantly disciplined, despite both of their abilities. That's how i think all instrumentalists should be like, not like... oh god i can't say his name... oh man this is hard... *cough* John Petrucci *cough*... phew. Anyway, back on the subject of keyboards, i think they fill out the sound much better than any guitarist around, and we are way more disciplined than most: surely a necessity in any band? Not just an added effect Not appreciated enough IMO.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: April 17 2008 at 11:22 |
Speaking of guitar players, I have done a lot of work with funk/jazz/RnB guitar players and they are so much more fun to work with than rock guitarists.
Funk guitarists tend to be much better team players and keep their volume even in the mix, and as an accompanist they tend to be a lot like keyboard players, adding nice melodic lines instead of big power chords that bury everybody.
Most really good funk guitarists can also deliver the screaming solo if neccessary, which is usually the only thing rock guitarists are good for.
Also funk/jazz guitarists tend to have a much better knowledge of chords such as 7ths, 9ths and chords with altered tones and extended harmonies. Older progressive rock guitarists such as Fripp, Howe, Akkerman and Manzenera tend to have a strong background in RnB/jazz, not just rock.
Edited by Easy Money - April 17 2008 at 11:23
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Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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sean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1155
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Posted: April 17 2008 at 15:21 |
^^^
Personally, I don't mind when guitarists do insane solos and whatnot. I enjoy doing that myself but like ELP says, there's a time and a place. A lot of guitarists seem to have trouble grasping that people might want to hear the full band and not just them. Also, I have to admit that sometimes I enjoy taking the role of the guitarist and doing Hugh Banton/Jon Lord type things with distorted organs or even just weird noises that are quite distorted, but I know my place in the band and I let everyone have a turn to do what they want.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: April 18 2008 at 06:54 |
I've been playing piano since I was 4, achieved UK Oxford Board of Music grade 8 when I was 15, and naturally, when I read for my music degree, Piano was may main instrument, voice second, as I also achieved grade 7 tenor and grade 8 baritone - despite the fact I have a wide vocal range that spans from reasonable contrabass (low C) to contralto (not falsetto!) (high F-G), I am not altogether comfortable enough in my tenor range to sing, say, the Duke's aria from Rigoletto or "Nessun Dorma" - although I could, at a push.
That's simply my qualifications, not a statement of how good I am or why my opinion should count more than anyone else's in any way!
While I admire what Emerson brought to rock music, I find his clumsy playing irritating sometimes, and I find Wakeman's compositions to be so trite that I find them painful to listen to as a rule.
I admire jazz pianists like Lennie Tristano, and classical pianists like John Lill - but I also like organists like John Lord, Tony Banks, Richard Wright, Pete Bardens, Mark Kelly - and especially Jimmy Smith for rock and roll feel.
I don't play keyboards in bands, generally, because I prefer to play the guitar, on which I am almost wholly untutored. I just like it that way as I find it much easier to improvise. I don't read tabs, but that's OK, because sight-reading has been second nature to me for a long time where improvising is not an option, and I have a well-organised musical memory where cover versions are concerned.
That said, I know how difficult it is to find a decent keyboard player, and will happily write or assist in writing keyboard parts - indeed, I tend to find myself correcting keyboard players I've worked with in sloppy harmony or alternative melody line suggestions.
Wouldn't you hate to be in a band with me
Edited by Certif1ed - April 18 2008 at 06:57
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: April 18 2008 at 13:13 |
Certif1ed wrote:
I've been playing piano since I was 4, achieved UK Oxford Board of Music grade 8 when I was 15, and naturally, when I read for my music degree, Piano was may main instrument, voice second, as I also achieved grade 7 tenor and grade 8 baritone - despite the fact I have a wide vocal range that spans from reasonable contrabass (low C) to contralto (not falsetto!) (high F-G), I am not altogether comfortable enough in my tenor range to sing, say, the Duke's aria from Rigoletto or "Nessun Dorma" - although I could, at a push.
That's simply my qualifications, not a statement of how good I am or why my opinion should count more than anyone else's in any way!
While I admire what Emerson brought to rock music, I find his clumsy playing irritating sometimes, and I find Wakeman's compositions to be so trite that I find them painful to listen to as a rule.
I admire jazz pianists like Lennie Tristano, and classical pianists like John Lill - but I also like organists like John Lord, Tony Banks, Richard Wright, Pete Bardens, Mark Kelly - and especially Jimmy Smith for rock and roll feel.
I don't play keyboards in bands, generally, because I prefer to play the guitar, on which I am almost wholly untutored. I just like it that way as I find it much easier to improvise. I don't read tabs, but that's OK, because sight-reading has been second nature to me for a long time where improvising is not an option, and I have a well-organised musical memory where cover versions are concerned.
That said, I know how difficult it is to find a decent keyboard player, and will happily write or assist in writing keyboard parts - indeed, I tend to find myself correcting keyboard players I've worked with in sloppy harmony or alternative melody line suggestions.
Wouldn't you hate to be in a band with me |
No, i think it would be a breath of fresh air, i too compose keyboard parts and i also compose/arrange for a string quartet; very hard work indeed! It is deeply gratifying however, looking back on an end product in music is like no other feeling, like pride on an extortionate level. Anyway, deepest of respects to you Certif1ed, you have obviously worked hard on the good old keyboard, very much commended
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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