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darkshade 
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 Topic: UFO's. Do you believe?
Posted: April 14 2008 at 17:42 |
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I watched UFO Hunters on the History Channel last night, and it made me scour the internet to find articles and such about UFOs. What really intrigued me was the January 8, 2008 Stephenville, Texas sightings. So many cover ups by the government, saying it was this or that or whatever. Yet, there were over 40 witnesses to the event. Not one or 2 guys who were drunk or trying to stir debate, but 40 normal people. Not to mention there were over a dozen more in the weeks before and after. People who arent even UFO nuts (and im not one either) even believe this is a cover-up by higher authorities.
When you analyze the information, sightings that arent fake, but unexplainable, do the math, and use common sense, UFOs and aliens must be real. With so many galaxies with so many stars with so many planets, why would Earth be the only place with life?
The first men to land on the moon even saw UFOs and other strange things when they got there and were exploring the surface. Almost like whatever it was was watching their every move. (im not 100% sure if this is right, i remember hearing about this a while ago)
People who work for NASA, astronauts, airline personnel, military and government personnel believe and KNOW that the government is covering it up and the reason is humanity is not mature enough to handle the knowledge that aliens exist. Yet, 98% of people believe there is life out there.
Does the government really think we're all close-minded Christians who are still living in the 1600's? (not trying to start a religious debate, although it may happen, since if proof were exposed by the government that extra terrestrial life is real, it would down play so much of what religion is based on)
Personally, i believe there is life out there. Not even based on UFO accounts, but based on scientific facts. I said it before, so many galaxies with so many stars with so many planets. when you do the math, there is a 100% possibility that life exists other than on earth (im not making this figure up)
what do you guys think?
PLEASE KEEP THE THREAD CIVIL, MATURE AND REMEMBER PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS AND BELIEFS.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 17:53 |
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Well of course I believe in people seeing flying objects they can't identify.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 17:56 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
Well of course I believe in people seeing flying objects they can't identify.
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all the time, and some are genuinely unidentifiable.. less likely alien though, and more likely Air Force, Navy or NASA
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:02 |
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I agree with David.
If there's cover-ups, it's the Military covering up their own experiments. Skunkworks are always experimenting with new equipment, but they do not make these public.
I do believe in life on other planets, it's a certainty. However, I am not certain as to whether these other lifeforms are capable of space travel yet. Maybe in distant galaxy, but whether these spacecraft are able to travel as far as Earth, is unknown.
I've never seen proof aliens (which is such a silly name for them) have visited earth.
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laplace
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:03 |
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This is a topic that always has me puzzled whenever I try to think about it. =(
I'm reasonably acceptant of the theory that there is life alien to our own in the universe, but I'm skeptical over the alleged "alien" identity of UFOs, because thanks to the same astronomical numbers that allow us to say that alien life is out there, isn't it incredibly unlikely that we'd find each other?
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darkshade
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:04 |
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i knew id get responses like that. im talking more about alien UFOs. i basically mean do you believe there's life out there, and that they've been coming to earth?
obviously people mistake things for airline craft, or weather balloons, or the military testing new aircraft. Hell, i remember someone freaking out in NJ because they saw a UFO, when it was just a kid playing with a toy airplane.
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:07 |
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well if you want truly amazing accounts of communion with non-human beings, Whitley Strieber's books are great reads.. whether you believe him is beside the point, the books are absorbing
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darkshade
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:07 |
laplace wrote:
This is a topic that always has me puzzled whenever I try to think about it. =(
I'm reasonably acceptant of the theory that there is life alien to our own in the universe, but I'm skeptical over the alleged "alien" identity of UFOs, because thanks to the same astronomical numbers that allow us to say that alien life is out there, isn't it incredibly unlikely that we'd find each other? |
yea especially when you consider the distance between us and the nearest star, which would have planets orbiting around it. unless, somehow, on whatever planet they're on, they were able to conceive a ship that's able to travel the speed of light, or faster. or they've mastered time travel
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:13 |
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The chances of anything coming from Mars, is a million to one, they said....
We're struggling to even get to other planets ourselves (apart from maybe the Moon, if you believe we've been there at all....) with humans onboard, so I'm very sceptical indeed about whether "alien" would be able to do the same.
Who says we're not the most advanced lifeform in the whole solar system? We could be. We maybe that one anomaly. That one perfectly hospitable planet that is like no other.
Of course, we could all live on a planet that has a parallel planet elsewhere in the solar system.
Or we could all be a figment of our own imaginations and don't actually exist.
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laplace
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:15 |
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Yes, Geck2. But then again, the reverse could be true, which is what the thread's about. =P Maybe there are aliens out there who breathe space and excrete meteors and can swim at a zillion parsecs per minisecond.
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Drew
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:16 |
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I don't know- if there were other life forms- the chanes that SOMEONE would have found us by now is 100%- and it hasnt happened- or so we believe. So Im just going to say no. There is no other life.
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darkshade
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:39 |
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i mean, it's possible there are other civilizations having the same problem we have with space travel and not knowing if there's other life out there. this exact conversation could be happening thousands of light years away
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Leningrad
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:42 |
I think that with the absolute vastness of the universe, there is no way that we are the only intelligent life out there.
That being said, I don't believe we've been visited.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:44 |
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Who'd want to visit Earth anyhow! It's like those Simpsons Aliens looking down on us!
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Leningrad
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 18:50 |
James wrote:
Who'd want to visit Earth anyhow! It's like those Simpsons Aliens looking down on us! |
Well, odds are if these aliens had the means to visit us, their planets must be very industrial and developed, yes?
They come to Earth to get a taste of pastoral, natural side of things! 
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Dean
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 21:04 |
I expect there to be quite a lot of life in the Universe, as has been pointed out, the shear weight of numbers of stars in our galaxy and galaxies in the Universe means that by all probability if life exists on one measly planet on the outer rim of quite an unremarkable spiral galaxy then life must exist on countless others.
Some of it will be more advanced than us, some of it less so, most of it could be equally as advanced as we are, but never invented Tippex™ so they have never been able to correct the errors in their theories of semiconductor physics and therefore never entered the silicon age, not discovered radio-waves, split the atom or built the Toyota Prius, yet alone a space craft of any description. I say "most" for one simple reason - the only example we have suggests it takes life 4.5 billion years to "evolve" to our current level - and it took the Universe 9 billion years to create stars that were stable enough to support the creation of life, therefore all the Sun-like stars in the Universe that could start the life-cycle started at the same time ours did, so the majority of life in the Universe is at our level of evolution (give or take a few million years  ).
The distance to the nearest stellar neighbour is 4 light-years away (24 trillion miles or 40 trillion km). The fastest vehicle we have is the Space Shuttle, which can travel at 18,000 mph (28,000kph). It would take the space shuttle 157,222 years to get there - this is long before we start worrying about how many Texaco service stations there are along the way to re-fuel it or how we would maintain and service a mechanical system to survive such a journey when bits fall off even the most reliable of systems at alarming regularity.
Even if the extraterrestrial life forms have invented a different propulsion system, Newtons laws still apply even if their civilisation doesn't possess apples and thus never had a Newton - energy is required to move a mass and to move it over a vast distance, a vast amount of energy is required.
Faster than light travel is simply impossible. Not improbable, impossible. This is not bad maths or selfish physics on our part, it's not the result of our scientists inventing "rules" that stop this from happening or them not thinking "outside the box" or simply "getting it wrong" - it is an absolute limit of the Universe and even extraterrestrial are governed by those same rules and laws, even if their maths is base-3, their physics is written in iambic-pentameter and their Einstein was a hotel clerk. Not believing in this limit is simply not enough to make it go away. (Neither would reading Science Fiction - the keyword there is the second one  )
Also, there is no magic system of trapdoors and wormholes that would enable matter to travel through them and arrive intact. Entering a singularity would convert all mass into energy, this energy could travel through a wormhole (if such things exist) and be expelled out of another singularity lightyears distant, where it may be converted back to mass - but without the coding-imprint of what that mass looked like when it first entered: you re-enter the Universe as radiation, then sub-atomic particles and then hydrogen - 4.5 billion years later you may have coalesced into a recognisable life-form, but you wouldn't be you anymore and 4.5 billion years hardly qualifies as "faster-than-light".
So in answer to the original question: No I don't believe in UFOs - where UFOs are vehicles for extraterrestrial lifeforms. A non-belief that is supported by the observation that the only reasons that these extraterrestrials appear to traverse the trillions of miles of empty space at enormous cost in energy and time is to abduct simpletons, goose cattle and make pretty patterns in wheat-fields. 
Edited by darqDean - April 14 2008 at 21:08
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What?
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 21:17 |
That is the best reply to this question I have ever read and it makes perfect sense! If only I had a brain that could remember all this, so when this same question comes up again in the not too distant future, I can answer it just like you just have. Fantastic, Dean, have a pint on Jared.  
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Padraic
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 22:26 |
James wrote:
Who'd want to visit Earth anyhow! It's like those Simpsons Aliens looking down on us!
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!
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Padraic
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 22:30 |
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tuxon
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Posted: April 15 2008 at 00:09 |
I agree Darqdean made a perfect reply, so why should I bother to enter my thoughs in this thread.
well I want to so i will. but Darqdean pretty much summed it up.
some thoughts on the matter of extraterrestrial life, I do believe in life beyond earth, but I find it highly doubtfull there is life that's even remotly as intelligent as we are, of all the life forms on earth only humans can do what we can do, we have both the brains and the body (maybe dolphins are smarter, but they lack the body), so even if there's life on other planets the chances are slimm they are remotly as intelligent as we are, and even if they are, the chance is very slight we can ever run into them, as the chances are a million to one, but still they come.
and the speed of light is not the limit, we just haven't find a way to go faster yet, but maybe in time we will.
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UFO's. Do you believe?
Of course, James ordered the pint.