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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 10:46
I don't see anything metal in "Red" at all


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 10:53
WikiPedia has a decent, if not interesting, entry:
 
 
FW, DT, and Queensryche are noted as bringing into mainstream. However, I do not see them as pioneers so much as the gatherers of precursory ideas. They molded the style, giving it greater definition.
 
edit:

"Several of the leading bands in the prog-metal genre – Dream Theater (U.S.), Ayreon (Netherlands), Opeth (Sweden), Fates Warning (U.S.) and Queensr˙che (U.S.) – cite pioneer progressive hard-rockers Rush as a primary influence, although their music exhibits influences from more traditional metal bands such as Black Sabbath or Deep Purple as well. Tool have cited pioneers King Crimson as an influence on their work.[11] King Crimson opened for Tool on their 2001 tour and expressed admiration for the group while continuing to deny the "prog" label.[12]"

 
 
 


Edited by StyLaZyn - April 07 2008 at 12:17
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 12:40
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

"[...] cite pioneer progressive hard-rockers Rush as a primary influence [...]"



This is exactly what I mean. They're a big influence, but their music is clearly of another genre than Prog Metal.Clap
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CCVP View Drop Down
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 13:30
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't see anything metal in "Red" at all


Neither do i
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StyLaZyn View Drop Down
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 13:31
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

"[...] cite pioneer progressive hard-rockers Rush as a primary influence [...]"



This is exactly what I mean. They're a big influence, but their music is clearly of another genre than Prog Metal.Clap
 
I have no argument in saying Rush is not Prog Metal. I'm right there with you. However, they are pioneers in the genre. One of those many bands that broke ground. I have even read in articles saying that they deserve the most credit due to their inclusion of keyboards with the heavy metal sound and Progressive Rock song structure.
 
 
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 14:48
^ yes, and even without a keyboardist!Wink Seriously, it depends on how you define pioneering. For me a pioneer is someone who does something before all other people. Obviously for you someone can be a pioneer in something without actually doing it ... it is sufficient if the artist is preparing or laying the foundation of something. 
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heyitsthatguy View Drop Down
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Points: 10094 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 14:59
heavy != metal necessarily


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StyLaZyn View Drop Down
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 15:03
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ yes, and even without a keyboardist!Wink Seriously, it depends on how you define pioneering. For me a pioneer is someone who does something before all other people. Obviously for you someone can be a pioneer in something without actually doing it ... it is sufficient if the artist is preparing or laying the foundation of something. 
 
I think it can be a gray area but I think a pioneer also opens the door for others. This would include trodding on ground not previously ventured. I would almost consider the end of Cygnus Book 1 as early Prog Metal.
 
 
 
 
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 15:50
Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

heavy != metal necessarily


what?

so Deep purple was metal . . . .
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Points: 2492 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 15:56
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

heavy != metal necessarily


what?

so Deep purple was metal . . . .

You've never written Java, huh?
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:38
Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

heavy != metal necessarily


what?

so Deep purple was metal . . . .

You've never written Java, huh?


Well, there is no need to. There are many customizers available on the net for everyone. Besides, i never really needed to write in any kind of writing except the traditional writing. You can call me a newfag, but i don't have any kind of programming / writing / hacking abilities simply because i had never seen the use of such things.
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heyitsthatguy View Drop Down
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Points: 10094 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 21:20
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

heavy != metal necessarily


what?

so Deep purple was metal . . . .

You've never written Java, huh?


Well, there is no need to. There are many customizers available on the net for everyone. Besides, i never really needed to write in any kind of writing except the traditional writing. You can call me a newfag, but i don't have any kind of programming / writing / hacking abilities simply because i had never seen the use of such things.

*psst don't use terms like "newfag" on PA they're somewhat frowned upon*Geek

a simple mistake, I should have made it more obvious like this

heavy =/= metal


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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 21:33
Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

heavy != metal necessarily


what?

so Deep purple was metal . . . .

You've never written Java, huh?


Well, there is no need to. There are many customizers available on the net for everyone. Besides, i never really needed to write in any kind of writing except the traditional writing. You can call me a newfag, but i don't have any kind of programming / writing / hacking abilities simply because i had never seen the use of such things.

*psst don't use terms like "newfag" on PA they're somewhat frowned upon*Geek

a simple mistake, I should have made it more obvious like this

heavy =/= metal



now i got it =P
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oracus View Drop Down
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Points: 497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 21:54
Check out Elegant Gypsy by Al Di Meola and you will how Dream Theater rip Meola off (ok, in a good way). For me, that record played a huge role in Progressive Metal as we see it today.

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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 07:07
It seems clear to me that the real Prog Metal roots bands were;
 
Generation 1
 
Scorpions/UFO
Judas Priest
Rainbow
Rush
 
Generation 2
 
Metallica
Rush
...the 1980s were a bit short on truly progressive metal acts, although there were a lot of minor innovators, and most "NWOBHM" bands put in their proggy moments - even Def Leppard.
 
Deep Purple et al never really played heavy metal per se, but brought a progressive aspect to hard rock - and Black Sabbath were the original heavy metal band. I've always had a problem with identifiying Queensryche as progressive in any shape or form.
 
If you're going to start counting 2nd generation bands like Maiden, you should also consider 1st generation bands like Skid Row/Thin Lizzy and Wishbone Ash.
 
At the root are Pink Floyd, Spooky Tooth and Twink.
 


Edited by Certif1ed - April 08 2008 at 07:11
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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StyLaZyn View Drop Down
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 08:21
Originally posted by oracus oracus wrote:

Check out Elegant Gypsy by Al Di Meola and you will how Dream Theater rip Meola off (ok, in a good way). For me, that record played a huge role in Progressive Metal as we see it today.
 
Jazz has some great ideas that Progressive Rock has been influenced with. But with DT/Di Meola, which parts do you mean? I am having trouble putting them together. It wouldn't at all surprise me about DT re-interpreting his ideas. They are one band that wears their influences on their sleeve.
 
 
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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 17:36
"Elegant Gipsy" and metal? That is the least I think of when hearing that album, to be honest.

Edited by BaldFriede - April 08 2008 at 17:37


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2008 at 01:01
It's so amusing when I see people trying to be more politically correct with the "prog community" mentioning completely NON-METAL bands as main influences for prog-METAL bands than actual METAL bands which may sound less, say, "progressively correct", like Iron Maiden or METALLICA.
 
Yes people, I concede. It was Beethoven who really invented metal.
 
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2008 at 01:44
Originally posted by oracus oracus wrote:

Check out Elegant Gypsy by Al Di Meola and you will how Dream Theater rip Meola off (ok, in a good way). For me, that record played a huge role in Progressive Metal as we see it today.
 
It's already been explained that other genres/artists have had an impact on the development of Progressive Metal.
Elephant Gypsy may have had a fairly big impact on Prog Metal, but so did Yes, King Crimson, Jethro Tull etc.
Bach and Vivaldi might have been huge influences on neo-classical metal, but they aren't neo-classical metal pioneers are they?
Same goes for Al Di Meola, Yes, King Crimson, Jethro Tull etc, they are merely influences, not pioneers of the genre we now know as prog-metal. Metallica, Megadeth, Fates Warning and Queensr˙che would be good examples of Prog Metal pioneers
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2008 at 02:45
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

"Elegant Gipsy" and metal? That is the least I think of when hearing that album, to be honest.


Progressive Metal is a varied genre ... most of the bands are quite eclectic and draw from a broad range of influences and styles. What separates them from the other (Prog Rock) bands is that this range also includes NWOBHM/Thrash Metal/Death Metal/Black Metal.
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