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dedalus 
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 04 2007
Location: Iran
Status: Offline
Points: 39
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 Posted: April 06 2008 at 03:39 |
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fates warning.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 04:48 |
For me:
- Andromeda (Uk)
- Deep Purple
- Blue Oyster Cult
- Guess Who
- King Crimson
- Atomic Rooster
- Rush
- Rainbow
- Warlord
- Jeff Beck
- High Tide
- Black Widow
- Led Zeppelin
- ELP
- Wishbone Ash
- Quatermass
- Le Orme
- Black Sabbath
And many more...
Edited by Mandrakeroot - April 06 2008 at 04:50
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 06:39 |
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Topic title makes me think of stuff like Rush and Budgie, and Black Sabbath. Dream Theater weren't pioneers.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21598
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 08:24 |
 Philéas wrote:
Topic title makes me think of stuff like Rush and Budgie, and Black Sabbath. Dream Theater weren't pioneers.
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Those bands you mention were never playing prog metal ... I can't see how they can be pioneers of the genre.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 13:55 |
Mandrakeroot wrote:
For me:
- Andromeda (Uk)
- Deep Purple
- Blue Oyster Cult
- Guess Who
- King Crimson
- Atomic Rooster
- Rush
- Rainbow
- Warlord
- Jeff Beck
- High Tide
- Black Widow
- Led Zeppelin
- ELP
- Wishbone Ash
- Quatermass
- Le Orme
- Black Sabbath
And many more... |
These may be METAL pioneers in that they helped shape METAL, just METAL. But PROGRESSIVE METAL.... that's a different thing.
Rush or Badgie? Where's the METAL part of their "pioneerism?" I don't think so. They were influences on progressive metal, sure, but they were not playing metal, therefore how can they be prog-metal pioneers?
It would be good to start a thread about the meaning of the "metal" word and genre... all of these bands were INFLUENCES, but none of them actually played METAL.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 14:41 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Philéas wrote:
Topic title makes me think of stuff like Rush and Budgie, and Black Sabbath. Dream Theater weren't pioneers.
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Those bands you mention were never playing prog metal ... I can't see how they can be pioneers of the genre.
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2112 not Prog Metal? Explain please Mike.  In the 70s Rush were often described as metal...
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 14:54 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21598
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 16:17 |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 16:31 |
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 16:39 |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 16:41 |
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Back on topic.
Mike, I accept that DT dont sound like Rush, but stylistically Rush have been an influence, surely?
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21598
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 17:21 |
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^ sure, of course they have ... everybody knows that Portnoy is a big fan of Peart. But that doesn't mean that Rush invented Prog Metal. Nobody's saying that Stravinsky invented Prog Rock, but still Yes were inspired by the Rite of Spring on CttE.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 17:38 |
Tony R wrote:
Back on topic.
Mike, I accept that DT dont sound like Rush, but stylistically Rush have been an influence, surely?
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Rush influenced DT, but the prog metal pioneers were more influenced by metal pioneers and hard rock bands.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 21:55 |
Tony R wrote:
Back on topic.
Mike, I accept that DT dont sound like Rush, but stylistically Rush have been an influence, surely?
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Take what progressive metal mostly is. Not counting new genres as post metal, most of what we know as PROG-METAL is mostly based on thrash riffing and strcutures that come in good part from METALLICA, not from Rush. DT were influenced by Rush in the hard-rock/prog side of things, but the core influence of their METAL sound comes from Metallica. That's my p[oint.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 22:00 |
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Crimson Glory, Fate's Warning, Queensryche, NWOBHM
That's what I can trace easily. Black Sabbath surely had some influence, but really I think it's logical to say it began with the above.
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 22:02 |
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OK, King Crimson's Red is a prog-metal album. King Crimson is not a prog metal band (well, they pretty much are now), but that album is every bit as heavy as anything Black Sabbath put out. The Great Deceiver box set shows the band at their jazz metal peak. Some of the stuff they play there scared me as much as Sabbath did when I first listened.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 22:04 |
Yeah, I have to agree, sure you can hear Rush in Dream Theater, but it's not really that prominent in their music, and I think it's a major stretch to call Rush a prog-metal pioneer.
If you watch the score DVD, you will learn that when Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci and John Myung (as Majesty, the pre Dream Theater period) would frequently play Iron Maiden and Rush songs in the rehearsal rooms at the Berklee College of Music. I think it's safe to say of the two bands they would cover, we hear more Iron Maiden than Rush in Dream Theater's music. Also bear in mind, they began to play/jam in Berklee prior to Master of Puppets being released, which is of course an album they cite as a big influence (although I can imagine they would have possible been listening to Kill 'Em All and Ride Lightning though).
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 23:12 |
1800iareyay wrote:
OK, King Crimson's Red is a prog-metal album. King Crimson is not a prog metal band (well, they pretty much are now), but that album is every bit as heavy as anything Black Sabbath put out. The Great Deceiver box set shows the band at their jazz metal peak. Some of the stuff they play there scared me as much as Sabbath did when I first listened.
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WHAT? has ignorance gone this far??? How can RED be a progressive metal album???? it is a guitar-driven album. Or it is best to say AN AWESOME guitar driven album. But nor prog metal.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: April 07 2008 at 10:19 |
CCVP wrote:
1800iareyay wrote:
OK, King Crimson's Red is a prog-metal album. King Crimson is not a prog metal band (well, they pretty much are now), but that album is every bit as heavy as anything Black Sabbath put out. The Great Deceiver box set shows the band at their jazz metal peak. Some of the stuff they play there scared me as much as Sabbath did when I first listened.
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WHAT? has ignorance gone this far??? How can RED be a progressive metal album????
it is a guitar-driven album. Or it is best to say AN AWESOME guitar driven album. But nor prog metal.
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Jazz metal would certainly be a good description of at least the first three tracks on Red, and the album as a whole is far more metal than anything Ruch ever did.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: April 07 2008 at 10:41 |
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I love the term jazz metal! And yes, King Crimson is a surprisingly heavy band. But I wouldn't call them pioneers of prog metal, they lack to much of what is modern metal.
And as I've probably read earlier in this thread, being heavy doesn't make it metal.
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Progressive Metal Pioneers?
