Progressive Metal Pioneers?

ok, there are a lot of thought just being tossed around. Allow me to order them.

Rush was a very big influence on prog metal, although  they were  not metal  (they were a  hard rock band, for Christ sake!)

Sabbath, Led, Iron and some others alike helped the genre because they were big influences to.

Fates Warning and Queensrÿche are probably the pioneers on the genre and were also a big influence on bands to come.

Dream Theater is the big name of the genre, dragged a lot of attention to it and helped to  consolidate it.  Images and Words is, to prog metal, the same thing In the Court of the Crimson King was for progressive rock: it putted together all the elements that came before it, added some more and drew a clear line dividing what is and what is not prog metal. They are also the most influential band of the genre, being responsible for hundreds of "dt clones"

sinkadotentree wrote: Fates Warning and Queensryche were both early prog-metal bands. A lot of people don't consider Rush metal.

Quite true. Both bands were around several years before DT and could be considered as prog-metal pioneers IMO.
The truth about DT is somewhere in the middle, as they were not the first, but Images and Words was an album that really shook the prog-metal scene in 1992. Dozens of bands were influenced by this album only.

They also probably changed the way prog-metal tracks were composed after I&W...

I might be pushing this a little but I would have to say one band would be Captain Beyond. 

rushfan4 wrote: Interesting that no one has mentioned Metallica.  In my mind, they are kind of the missing link between Rush and Dream Theater.  I do agree with other bands mentioned such as Savatage, Queensryche, and Fates Warning as being some of the first forms of prog metal.   I think that if one of the Bald Angels were here they might throw in High Tide as one of the first prog metal bands.

The T wrote: Good post. Though I still think it lacks mentioning the other side of things: METAL. And not NWOBHM but THRASH meatl which is the one DT and all its clones worked upon. Yes, DT heard more METALLICA than KINGCRIMSON before they created Images and Words.

Damn, i forgot about Metallica .

I think DT haves its moments of consolidating their influences on their albums. For example, FII have a clear Rush's farewell to kings influence. Octavarium have a clear Pink Floyd's WYWH influence. Train of thought is their most Metallica album. However, their groundbreaking albums, such as awake, images and words, scenes from a memory and six degrees, simply puts their influences together plus something unique.

Yep Metallica for me too.

The T wrote: rushfan4 wrote: Interesting that no one has mentioned Metallica.  In my mind, they are kind of the missing link between Rush and Dream Theater.  I do agree with other bands mentioned such as Savatage, Queensryche, and Fates Warning as being some of the first forms of prog metal.   I think that if one of the Bald Angels were here they might throw in High Tide as one of the first prog metal bands.   Exactly. People here keep mentioning Crimson or other bands that belong pure to the prog side of things even if they have some elements that helped create prog-metal. But if we're talking about progressive-METAL, we also have to look at the metal side of things; Metallica, with And Justice for all and Master of puppets, created the original long metal structure that eventually Dream Theater worked upon to create When day and dream unite and later, Images and Words. So yes, I think DT were pioneers in that thwey truly incorporated METAL into progressive metal with riffing and strcutures taken from METALLICA, merging it with influences from bands like Rush, FWarning, Zeppelin, and yes, even mighty Crimson (one would think King Crimson created all music if one reads enough postst in this forum)

The T wrote:   Good post. Though I still think it lacks mentioning the other side of things: METAL. And not NWOBHM but THRASH meatl which is the one DT and all its clones worked upon. Yes, DT heard more METALLICA than KINGCRIMSON before they created Images and Words.

It also depends on the track. For example, I think there is a good dose of King Crimson in Metropolis Pt. 1, a decent amount of Yes in Surrounded etc.. But you're right in that Thrash is a constant influence in most DT tracks.

"nos esse quasi nanos, gigantium humeris insidentes, ut possimus plura eis et remotiora videre, non utique proprii visus acumine, aut eminentia corporis, sed quia in altum subvenimur et extollimur magnitudine gigantea" ("we are like dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, so that we can see more than they, and things at a greater distance, not by virtue of any sharpness of sight on our part, or any physical distinction, but because we are carried high and raised up by their giant size"), as Bernard of Chantres stated. also "ex nihil nihilo fit", "nothing comes from nothing", as Parmenides of Elea stated. what am I trying to say by this? simply that trying to answer questions like that is futile. human beings want to classify everything and draw lines, putting every phenomenon neatly into a drawer of its own. the world, however, is not made like that. to quote Goethe: "denn eben wo Begriffe fehlen, da stellt ein Wort zur rechten Zeit sich ein" ("because just where concepts are missing, a word will appear just in time").

having said that I will go and nullify everything I said  and of course name "High Tide", which, as someone already noted, is expected of me

yep, whether a rose or prog metal. I should definitely have remembered Shakespeare had something to say on the matter too