Progressive Metal Pioneers?

rushfan4 wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: micky wrote: ^ how about  proto prog jazz as well Brubeck anyone?...  don't tell me he wouldn't fit here.  Name a prog fan that doesn't enjoy Time Out for example... on it's merits at least.. overexposure being another matter. Not to mention it's influence on popular music.. and prog. I have never heard that tune. Actually the only Brubeck I know is Take 5.   I was going to say the same thing.  Overexposure???  I don't believe that I have ever been exposed to it.

OMG! Go here http://www.mp3.com/albums/103834/summary.html

and check out the song Blue Rondo A La Turk. That time sing and style sounds like something we've all heard more than once by different Prog bands.

StyLaZyn wrote: rushfan4 wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: micky wrote: ^ how about  proto prog jazz as well Brubeck anyone?...  don't tell me he wouldn't fit here.  Name a prog fan that doesn't enjoy Time Out for example... on it's merits at least.. overexposure being another matter. Not to mention it's influence on popular music.. and prog. I have never heard that tune. Actually the only Brubeck I know is Take 5.   I was going to say the same thing.  Overexposure???  I don't believe that I have ever been exposed to it. OMG! Go here http://www.mp3.com/albums/103834/summary.html and check out the song Blue Rondo A La Turk. That time sing and style sounds like something we've all heard more than once by different Prog bands.

I have definitely heard the Nice and ELP play Rondo.

rushfan4 wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: micky wrote: ^ how about  proto prog jazz as well Brubeck anyone?...  don't tell me he wouldn't fit here.  Name a prog fan that doesn't enjoy Time Out for example... on it's merits at least.. overexposure being another matter. Not to mention it's influence on popular music.. and prog. I have never heard that tune. Actually the only Brubeck I know is Take 5.   I was going to say the same thing.  Overexposure???  I don't believe that I have ever been exposed to it.

missed this earlier... 

that has been a criticism of the album....  you all are prog fans... you know the drill...  an album that is unknown or underground is somehow a bit greater than normal knowing that you.. and your buddies know about it .. yet when an album hits the 'big time'  an album can sometimes lose something when you realize that everyone and their dog sees the brilliance of it. As if the truly great albums.. by their nature.. can only be known by the true fans. 

not to mention... just sit back and watch commericials on TV.. you'd be surprised (or perhaps not if you have already noticed)  just how often songs from that album are used in commericals.  It was an album that transcended jazz.. became more than just a jazz album.

this article says it well....

The Dave Brubeck Quartet
Time Out
Columbia

On Time Out, Dave Brubeck's quartet delved into different time signatures and broke from the traditional, swinging 4/4 rhythm found in jazz and in most Western music for that matter. They explored time signatures from Turkey and India and really opened up the music. Of course, the big hit “Take Five” came from this album and was the first jazz single to sell a million copies. So, as you can see, they not only broke new musical ground but also broke new commercial ground for the genre. I remember putting this album on and just having a smile come over my face. It was actually one of the first jazz albums which prompted my girlfriend to stop and tell me how much she liked it. I love the worldly feel of the music and how each song swings, regardless of whatever odd time signature it happens to occupy. I can put on Time Out and just sit back and relax, too. Sadly, this album has been lambasted over the years for being associated with the upscale ambience of the Starbucks of the world. However, as Steve Huey wrote at www.allmusicguide.com, “as someone once said of Shakespeare, it's really very good in spite of the people who like it.” That sounds just about right to me

Rush is like a pioneer hub with spokes of influence shooting off  in all different directions.  I find it hard to imagine progressive metal without traces of Rush DNA.  La Villa Strangiato merits that on it's own.  (Off Topic:  Has anyone here tried that  weird contest for front row seats at www.rush.com ?)  

 

The first two Alcatraz Albums no 'Parole for Rock 'n' Roll' & 'Disturbing the Peace' are at the top of my list.  I used to hang out with a bunch of bands during those years and I remember Alcatraz and Stanley Jordan's 'Magic Touch' in heavy rotation.   Another thing I remember is the loss of Randy Rhoads, I think a lot of young guitarists were looking to him as an influence and when he was gone there was this huge vacuum.  The guy was something special.  The way he  exploded with style like none before him and then it was just gone.  And then there's Queensryche who took it to another level.   Metallica was also a huge influence regardless of the Napster BS, they really changed the soundscape. 

Tracing out all of the roots would be like an episode of Lost, and that’s just it.  I was just listening to Echoes of Eternity’s debut album and I swear the second song on the album is a waltz.  Of course there is the flip-side of the coin.  What I consider progressive music is not someone else’s.  It’s all a matter of opinion.

Edited by EvyE - April 04 2008 at 01:56

KC ofcourse was pretty much prog-'anything'. I think Mercyful Fate could be seen as protoprog metal, considering their very complex compositional style

Edited by unclemeat69 - April 04 2008 at 01:30

Atavachron wrote: darkshade wrote: King Crimson pre-dates Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and even Rush with the development of prog metal Red was a breakthrough in a progressive sense, but to credit Crimson with developing progmetal is a stretch... heavy elements in rock music don't make you metal

Exactly. Prog Metal started in the mid to late 1980s ... with Queensryche, Fates Warning and Dream Theater as the key bands of the "core" PM movements, and a few experimental, more extreme bands like Voivod and Watchtower.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Atavachron wrote: darkshade wrote: King Crimson pre-dates Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and even Rush with the development of prog metal Red was a breakthrough in a progressive sense, but to credit Crimson with developing progmetal is a stretch... heavy elements in rock music don't make you metal Exactly. Prog Metal started in the mid to late 1980s ... with Queensryche, Fates Warning and Dream Theater as the key bands of the "core" PM movements, and a few experimental, more extreme bands like Voivod and Watchtower.

LinusW wrote: It's always hard to mention pioneers of a genre. You name Band X, and then you're stuck with " Yeah, but what about the influences of Band X? Aren't those the TRUE pioneers?" And suddenly you find yourself stuck with a downwards spiral ending somewhere in the 50's ^^ Those are the few I come to think of as well, Mike.

Exactly.  It's pretty obvious to me that Elvis was the originator of prog metal (or was it Robert Johnson?)

For myself though, it was Metallica that set the stage for my interest in prog metal (and prog in general, specifically with the And Justice For All album), along with Rush.  And I think those two can be pointed to as the most noticeable influences on DT.  Just my opinion of course, as I'm not a big prog metal, or DT for that matter, fan.

In the mid 80's, I was in to many of the metal bands of that time, like Maiden, Sabbath (Mob Rules was a great metal album), Ozzy, Queensryche, Metallica, etc.  But I also liked Zeppelin and other "classic" rock bands.  So I do have some background in metal I suppose.  In any case, I enjoy reading what the REAL metal affectionadoes have to say about the subject, as it points me to bands I've not heard or heard of before.

My 2 cents, only because I've been a DT fan since 1992 - when "Images & Words" came out, I believed that I was listening to something really new.  It was a sound that I had not encountered before - early descriptors were a marriage of Yes and Metallica, and being a huge fan of both bands I was instantly captivated.  Stuff like "Metropolis", "Under a Glass Moon", and "Learning to Live"...that was really a new approach in the early 90s.  The obvious influences were there (Rush, Maiden, etc.) and certainly those bands paved a road, but I have no problem giving Dream Theater the moniker of PM pioneer - I think they certainly were charting a new course at that time.