| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
StyLaZyn 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
 Topic: Progressive Metal Pioneers?
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:03 |
I just stopped over to the Progressive Nation website, which is an excellent idea, but I was a bit taken back by Dream Theater being called Progressive Metal Pioneers. Not that they don't play a huge part in this genre, but I always felt Progressive Metal had roots in the mid-70's to early 80's.
Thoughts? Is this statement a marketing tool?
|
|
|
 |
Modrigue
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 14 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 1127
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:06 |
|
To me Prog Metal began more with Rush...
|
|
|
|
FranMuzak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2007
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 195
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:20 |
I'd say that some Metal/Hard rock bands from the 70's and few from early 80's started to show a Prog approach in many songs, like Led Zeppelin, Iron maiden and others, but for me the closer definition of Prog metal pioneers belong to bands like Queensryche and Fates Warning.
|
|
Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:21 |
|
I think Dream Theater helped put a label on it... but i think that many other bands had been toying with the idea more during the late 70s early 80s.
Rush indeed with albums like 2112.
Others had messed around with this idea as well. Queensrych with operation mindcrime, Some of Iron Maiden's classic works like Caught Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son, even Helloween with albums like Keeper of the Seven Keys all toyed with mixing metal into prog. However, few (if any) of those bands really created anything progressive out of the mix. Dream Theater may have been the first (in the public eye anyways) to do that.
Others likely have a wildly differing opinion... but that's how I see it.
Edited by King By-Tor - April 03 2008 at 17:22
|
|
Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Online
Points: 14050
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:24 |
|
Fates Warning and Queensryche were both early prog-metal bands. A lot of people don't consider Rush metal.
|
|
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
|
Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:28 |
 sinkadotentree wrote:
Fates Warning and Queensryche were both early prog-metal bands. A lot of people don't consider Rush metal. |
Nor do I, but I think they definitely had influence on a number of heavy bands that would later come out. But I do know a lot of people who consider them full on metal and shun them for it... I just cock my head and give them a drooling-deer-in-headlights-stare.
|
|
darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:29 |
|
King Crimson pre-dates Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and even Rush with the development of prog metal
|
|
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65616
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:33 |
|
I'd have to give it to Maiden for bringing together progmetal elements under one roof
however... Voivod anyone?
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65616
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:36 |
darkshade wrote:
King Crimson pre-dates Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and even Rush with the development of prog metal
|
Red was a breakthrough in a progressive sense, but to credit Crimson with developing progmetal is a stretch... heavy elements in rock music don't make you metal
|
|
FranMuzak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2007
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 195
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:43 |
Atavachron wrote:
darkshade wrote:
King Crimson pre-dates Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and even Rush with the development of prog metal |
Red was a breakthrough in a progressive sense, but to credit Crimson with developing progmetal is a stretch... heavy elements in rock music don't make you metal
|
Exactly! There are a lot of Heavy Prog bands that use heavy or even some metal elements like Porcupine Tree lately, but i woud never call them Prog Metal.
|
|
JROCHA
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 18 2007
Location: Oakland, KS
Status: Offline
Points: 1501
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 18:32 |
|
Rush for me,from Caress of Steel through Hemispheres would be considered some of the first Prog Metal/heavy albums. But thats just what i think
|
|
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights...
|
|
TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 18:41 |
sinkadotentree wrote:
Fates Warning and Queensryche were both early prog-metal bands. A lot of people don't consider Rush metal. |
I don't think of Rush as metal as all.But I think they influenced quite a few prog metal musicians.
When I think of prog metal pioneers,bands like Iron Maiden,Queensryche and Fates Warning come to mind.I am not saying IM or even Queensryche are prog metal,just that they helped to lay the groundwork.
|
|
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 18:50 |
darkshade wrote:
King Crimson pre-dates Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and even Rush with the development of prog metal
|
I agree completely about KC. Not a metal band but some songs had serious Prog Metal elements well before it was a band focus.
|
|
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 18:52 |
I would consider I&W by Dream Theater more Progressive Rock than Prog Metal. I think they somewhere along the way decided to really embrace the Prog Metal genre.
|
|
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 19:40 |
Taking the pioneers of Prog Metal back into the 70s and early 80s is stretching things a little to far, certainly those bands heavily influenced Prog Metal, but they influenced lots of other flavours of metal too - they were the ancestors of PM, but not it's pioneers. I think it is tenuous to take Prog Metal any further back than the mid 80s when a new breed of metal bands were emerging that looked beyond "just metal"
I'd put Savatage in there somewhere. Not sure where though, but before DT at least, with Gutter Ballet and Hall of The Mountain King being embryonic (Symphonic) Prog Metal.
Another pioneer band that has influenced a lot of european Prog Metal is Celtic Frost whose use of experimentation, classical instrumentation and operatic vocals opened up the world of extreme metal.
|
|
What?
|
|
The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 19:58 |
|
don't know much about prog metal but I suppose it must be Rush...
If not it must be Led or Sabbath or Purple, metal pioneers, not saying they're metal in fact I hate saying those bands are metal.
|
|
rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:02 |
Interesting that no one has mentioned Metallica. In my mind, they are kind of the missing link between Rush and Dream Theater. I do agree with other bands mentioned such as Savatage, Queensryche, and Fates Warning as being some of the first forms of prog metal.
I think that if one of the Bald Angels were here they might throw in High Tide as one of the first prog metal bands.
|
|
|
|
akiko
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2005
Location: The Cinema Show
Status: Offline
Points: 169
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:30 |
Hmmm, maybe we should have a new sub-category here in PA: Proto prog metal 
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:47 |
^ how about proto prog jazz as well  Brubeck anyone?... don't tell me he wouldn't fit here. Name a prog fan that doesn't enjoy Time Out for example... on it's merits at least.. overexposure being another matter. Not to mention it's influence on popular music.. and prog.
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:52 |
micky wrote:
^ how about proto prog jazz as well
Brubeck anyone?... don't tell me he wouldn't fit here. Name a prog fan that doesn't enjoy Time Out for example... on it's merits at least.. overexposure being another matter. Not to mention it's influence on popular music.. and prog.
|
I have never heard that tune. Actually the only Brubeck I know is Take 5.
|
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Progressive Metal Pioneers?
